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INTEREST: Voice Actress Aya Hirano Claims She Still Receives Death Threats From Fans

2. VAs are wanted for their vocal talents, not their looks. (Unless the VA doubles as an idol.)

all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:

Maybe there is in fact a problem with treating people like commodities instead of humans?

If the people in question agree to commoditize themselves, then there's no problem. It's only a problem if they're unwilling.

My posts were made in reply to other posts discussing the idol industry, not the original article, but since the context may be lost, let me just say this now: What's happening to Aya Hirano now is not acceptable. Threats, harassment, stalking, and other unlawful behavior is not justifiable, and former fans should move on. Hopefully we can agree on something.

Aerdra wrote:

My posts were made in reply to other posts discussing the idol industry, not the original article, but since the context may be lost, let me just say this now: What's happening to Aya Hirano now is not acceptable. Threats, harassment, stalking, and other unlawful behavior is not justifiable, and former fans should move on. Hopefully we can agree on something.

People are responding to your posts because they do not say this. They actively undermine this and encourage those actions. You can’t pretend you believe this while going “Yes the effects are bad, but the causes are very very good.” You’re praising an exploitative system doing exactly what it was designed to do while also putting any blame for it directly on the workers being exploited by trying to hand waive away that you totally don’t support what happens to them but it’s their fault for getting involved. So you can throw a “we all agree” at the end of it all you want, but when you keep proving that you do not actually give a damn about the reason it happens don’t be surprised that others know it is hollow.

Few things I'm still confused with anime-oriented voice actors in Japan:

1. Is there a line between being a VA and an idol?
Can you become a VA without becoming an idol? Or is it part of the package? Who decides this? Your talent agency? Or the industry?
2. Can you become a VA without being, uh, physically attractive? Can I become a highly sought-after VA if I am able to voice 100 different types of characters from gruff old dude to charming bishonen BUT have a look that would shatter your camera lens?

ATastySub wrote:

Aerdra wrote: My posts were made in reply to other posts discussing the idol industry, not the original article, but since the context may be lost, let me just say this now: What's happening to Aya Hirano now is not acceptable. Threats, harassment, stalking, and other unlawful behavior is not justifiable, and former fans should move on. Hopefully we can agree on something. People are responding to your posts because they do not say this. They actively undermine this and encourage those actions. You can’t pretend you believe this while going “Yes the effects are bad, but the causes are very very good.” You’re praising an exploitative system doing exactly what it was designed to do while also putting any blame for it directly on the workers being exploited by trying to hand waive away that you totally don’t support what happens to them but it’s their fault for getting involved. So you can throw a “we all agree” at the end of it all you want, but when you keep proving that you do not actually give a damn about the reason it happens don’t be surprised that others know it is hollow.

Please do not put words in my mouth or pretend to know what I believe. I've maintained that harassment and other transgressions committed by fans are the fault of the fans themselves; not once have I blamed idols for poor fan behavior. The most severe consequence of misconduct by an idol should be termination of employment; threats and such are never justified.

If people want to paint over the whole idol industry with a few bad examples, then I suppose we won't ever find agreement. The anime fandom is often judged by outsiders in the same way.

Aerdra wrote:

Please do not put words in my mouth or pretend to know what I believe. I've maintained that harassment and other transgressions committed by fans are the fault of the fans themselves; not once have I blamed idols for poor fan behavior. The most severe consequence of misconduct by an idol should be termination of employment; threats and such are never justified. If people want to paint over the whole idol industry with a few bad examples, then I suppose we won't ever find agreement. The anime fandom is often judged by outsiders in the same way.

Good news! I didn’t put any words in your mouth. You’ve said them every single post including this one!
You’ve once again referred to “misconduct” as if that’s what happened in this case or any other with humans having human relationships. You keep stating that you disagree with the “consequences” of such actions, but still think there should be consequences! Hey it’s the exact entitlement and misogyny that led to the thing you supposedly condemn. How cool and neat. It’s a very cool thing that the industry you’re very defensive about markets those exact attitudes and ownership of exploited worker and then brushes it off as “bad apples” while they cultivate the entire orchard made entirely from seeds of bad apples.

Misconduct in this case is breach of employment contract, the consequence of which is naturally termination of employment. Most idols come and go without incident; most fans do not cause any problems. It is dishonest to pick a few bad apples and use them to represent the orchard.

I've made clear what I find unacceptable. I've repeated that I believe what happened to Aya Hirano is unjustifiable. If you or anyone else want to make more straw men of me and skewer them, have at it.

Also, FYI, "don't date anyone" is a crappy job requirement, and only serves to enhance the parasocial relationship between otaku and the idols they obsess over by convincing them that they're available.

It's a crappy requirement, but it's what brings in the big bucks. They would make a lot less if they didn't. It only a problem when idols want to start dating but also keep the fat paycheck.

Aerdra wrote:

all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote: Maybe there is in fact a problem with treating people like commodities instead of humans? If the people in question agree to commoditize themselves, then there's no problem. It's only a problem if they're unwilling.

This is generally not considered a great approach to matters of human rights.

all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:

People are allowed to fall in love; to deny so is to deny their personhood.

"The freedom to love is a fundamental human right."
"That's not something I expect to hear from an idol."
-Oshi no Ko

…It's gonna be fun seeing the kinds of discussions that pop up when that starts airing.

We aren't comparing a bigot to Hirano. There's absolutely zero things in common between those two situations and you couldn't blow that anti-trans dogwhistle any louder.

Aerdra wrote:

I didn't say that the idol industry needs reform; I was actually implying the opposite, given the industry's growth. If there are enough people replacing those who leave, it means there are enough people who don't feel exploited. And like I said before, those who do feel that the idol job description is burdensome should find a different line of work, which may or may not include alternative avenues in the entertainment industry.

You can't be serious. People take exploitative jobs out of a means for survival constantly and add the glow of potential fame to a teen/ young adult who puts their trust in management and you have a recipe for disaster. It doesn't matter if the "incels" hold the money or if for some reason you think dancing 22 year olds shouldn't have sex because you bought their CD. It's messed up. Death threats are not ok. Just quit engaging with their work if they aren't "pure" enough for you (gross).

We'll have to disagree on the "morality" aspect of the idol industry, because we hold different values and beliefs, and I figure those participating in or supporting it have their own opinions.

Being an idol is a job. You're not forced to accept that job, and no one is forced to offer you that job. If you're want to receive all the benefits of that job, you're expected to abide by all the requirements of that job. It's as simple as doing what you're supposed to do.

If people in the idol industry think the job requirements are immoral, they should leave. If enough talent leaves and too few new talent joins, the industry will be forced to reform itself or collapse. Until then, idols are simply people doing a certain job with specific requirements.