Forum - View topicNEWS: Prefecture's Youth Council Discusses 'Harmful' Books & Homosexuality
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||||
I was talking about the people in the article. 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
|
|||||||
Oh okay, my mistake. It seemed you were referring to people in the forum but because you post happened to be right after certain other user's posts at the time, I wasn't sure. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
|
|||||||
That's why it's a good idea to cite what you're responding to, so that everyone is on the same page about the context of your comments. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Rukiia
 Posts: 1897 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
|
|||||||
|
Has the thought not occurred to them that some men actually like it when a woman takes control in bed (like a dominatrix for example)? Isn't that called "experimenting in bed to keep things interesting"? This council sounds pretty prude, sheltered from the world, and full of fail.
Although, it makes me laugh when weeaboos would go on about how Japan and all its people are so glorious and accepting of a country. I might have to point this article out to them next time they go on a "NIPPON IS BETTER, BAKA!!!" rant. I love Japan and all, but wouldn't ever want to live there. They aren't all as accepting/open minded as most people like to assume. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
zeo1fan
Posts: 1016 |
|
|||||||
|
This might just be the most hilariously asinine thing I've ever read. Yes, watching hours of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball as a kid totally turned me gay. That's exactly how it happened. *sarcasm* But I wouldn't take these comments to seriously. Miyazaki being a conservative, rural prefecture and all, it's not likely to change much.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
ptj_tsubasa
 Posts: 129 |
|
|||||||
Western people sometimes make that assumption based on some misunderstandings that arise from not knowing about some cultural differences. Like, when there is lots of gay entertainment for females they might think that Japan is more accepting of gays - when all BL manga actually does is enforce traditional gender roles embossed on nominally homosexual characters. Or when they see that there are lots of female characters with active fighting roles in entertainment, and confuse this as "equality" because in the West manliness is defined by violence, and therefore a female character who fights is naturally a "strong female character" - even though Japan doesn't define femininity as a "lack of violence", but instead in the way I've previously described in this thread. (Some context for this, if you're interested.) Or when they see lots of sexual and romantic themes and scenes in youth-oriented entertainment, and think that this is because the Japanese are "more accepting" or "more open" about such things - when all it actually means that the moral codes of the culture are not based on Christian values, and there are other moral codes in their place. Last edited by ptj_tsubasa on Wed Jan 11, 2012 3:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
|
||||||||
enurtsol
 Posts: 14795 |
|
|||||||
OK, here's the piece: Young Japanese 'decline to fall in love' http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-16500768 What do ya guys think? See how many anime/manga cameos ya can identify! 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
|
|||||||
Kimi ni Todoke <3 |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
configspace
Posts: 3717 |
|
|||||||
They historically have been, the most tolerant of homosexual and sexual behavior in modern A.D. history than any other nation, until Perry's arrival. It is why modern Japanese conservative != classical Japanese conservative (analogous to how modern liberal != classical liberal in the west)
The biggest problem is most of the modern west on the political left define and judge "equality" as equality of outcome or effect. Real equality comes equality of opportunity, of equal rights but not forced outcomes or appearances
I think there is way too much emphasis on roles. Everywhere. Even in the west currently it is the same hypocritical emphasis, except where being pigeonholed into one category, people are pigeonholed into another. This is why dislike many movements like feminism and other -isms (like nationalism) and other culturally based assertions of "how things should be". They simply want to redefine the roles people should be in rather than be independent of them. This is where again real equality (of opportunity; freedom of choice) comes in. If people are comfortable with seme and uke roles then who are others to judge whether it is proper or represents equality or not. Even in the gay community there appears to be a schism with some western activist LGBT groups (who essentially deem "equality" as everyone being the same) and those who are not so concerned with political correctness where such roles can be seen like in the bondage in gay erotica. The fact that people can choose to be so is more representative of real equality than what they've chosen. I've written about expressions of gender and sexuality have historically been separate from roles and gender itself animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=942712#942712 see for more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Japan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_minorities_in_Japan#Japanese_definitions_of_gender_and_sexuality |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
ptj_tsubasa
Posts: 129 |
|
|||||||
Ah, but one can not equal "homosexual behavior" to "homosexual identity". The problem with that is that it assumes that gay identity as it exists now has always existed, which we know is not true. Pederasty is a good example. Ancient Greeks and Japanese men might've fooled around with young boys, but they hardly considered themselves "gay". The idea of homosexual identity just didn't exist - and a man who did not take a wife and instead insisted to live his life with a male spouse was surely shunned from society. This leads to problems when modern people see a history of homosexual behavior and masses of it in entertainment, and jump to the conclusion that people with a gay identity must thus be well-tolerated in the society. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
mdo7
 Posts: 6280 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
|
|||||||
Wow, this is an interesting video you link there, thanks Enurtsol. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Jeikobu
 Posts: 154 |
|
|||||||
|
To a degree, I am in agreement with what this article says. I think it is dangerous to have yaoi and yuri in the same pile as other manga. There should be a distinction, I think. As for the "woman taking the lead" idea, men and women are created equally. However, they also have their roles, none more important than the other. A man is supposed to be the head of a household, and today, at least in America, that seems to really be challenged a lot in media, and entertainment tends to do a lot of making the woman look powerful and the man look like a bumbling idiot. Of course, having it the other way would be just as wrong, and Japan has a long history of being demeaning to women. There needs to be less fighting, and more equality among the two.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
configspace
Posts: 3717 |
|
|||||||
Yes I agree that identity (and roles) was decoupled from behavior or self-expression, though it was not that uncommon actually to be single and have a same-sex partner. Samurai are probably the most well known example of this. Some court ladies, courtesans and of course mistresses who are not expected to play a part in family succession or play matriarch also could do the same. The problem that I see is that where none existed before, a "gay identity" has been defined as 'this and not that'. I find it ironic to define proper. politically correct identity and roles from the western perspective, rather than being individualistic and left undefined is now simply another pigeonhole, another form of categorization |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
|
|||||||
Why and who should be sorting the piles?
Once more: Why? What force that either deserves universal assent or is insurmountably coercive does or should exclude women from leadership? I doubt that there can be real equality if men must be the heads of households, because women are thus confined to subordinate roles. I feel obliged to admit that I find your attitude quite distasteful and assertions absent convincing arguments hardly changes my mind.
The bumbling sitcom dad is a tedious cliche, but I doubt it's prevalence. Those who have enjoyed the strongest, most privileged position in a society are the most sensitive to any offense against that position and tend to exaggerate their severity. I suspect that this might be such a case. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Genet
Posts: 261 Location: USA |
|
|||||||
|
Yeah I'm not surprised.
I got into an argument once with someone that told me that Japan is one of the most accepting countries of homosexuality and they're forward-thinking on women's rights and gender issues. Maybe not all of Japan thinks this way about women and gays, but they have strict gender roles and they're not as tolerant of homosexuality as a lot of yaoi fans might be thinking. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group