Forum - View topicINTEREST: Yuragi-sō no Yūna-san Stirs Controversy Over 'Sexual Depictions' in Shonen Jump
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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These are the fans doing it though, and not something inherent or intended in the source material itself. Otherwise, the argument that people get into anime mainly for the sexual fanservice becomes totally void as the fans will create whatever isn't there. You might as well say that people got into the first Teen Titans TV show for Starfire and Raven, into Adventure Time for Marceline and Princess Bubblegum, or into Star vs. The Forces of Evil because people got the hots for Star Butterfly. Same with American comic books, which are packed full of "Most Common Superpower" (parlance for superheroines with voluptuous figures), but with the exception of a few series here and there like Empowered or She-Hulk (and the latter is played for laughs), they are never used to draw new readers in. But this isn't about the fandoms. This is about why people got into anime to begin with. Me, I got into anime because of the intense action and the serial storytelling, which, at the time, were pretty rare in western animation. (Also, depending on what you mean, the Bronies and the furry fandom butt heads a lot.)
It is Japanese fanart of Queen Chrysalis from My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic. I'd show where I got it, but I am at work at the moment, and the site I got it from is NSFW (this piece itself is completely clean though).
In addition, the original point was about why westerners get into anime in the first place after being into other entertainment media. When you first get into something, you're not quite interacting with the fans yet (unless you join a group of fans and THEN get into it, which does happen, but not as often as stumbling across it). For most people, I'd say, they get into something because it offers something not found in anything else they know of, or not found in as much abundance. VORTIA claims that most people got into anime for the sexual fanservice. I'm sure a lot of people do, but only as a secondary or tertiary reason (and it was not a factor to me at all). Otherwise, we'd have a harem or romantic comedy series that has taken off besides Tenchi Muyo! or Sword Art Online, both of which are also action series. (Well, perhaps there's more now than there used to be due to the popularity of sports anime among girls, particularly Free, Yuri on Ice! and Haikyuu!!.)
They are just a few of many characters though, in the case of both Cowboy Bebop and Bleach. In both shows, their main draws are the action, the serial structure, and exotic settings. While I'm sure there are people who were curious seeing Faye or Rangiku or Aizen and watched them, I don't think they were the majority of people. |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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So yeah, I'd say that our current sociology is not only quite useless but incredibly harmful to the intellectual and emotional development of our youth. Last edited by Chrysostomus on Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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If we agree to exclude hentai (because porn is porn) or shows that are SPECIFICALLY, obviously aiming at the "nearly porn" target, I'd feel perfectly comfortable saying the number of people that get into anime for the fanservice in any other show is comparable with the numbers for Bebop or Bleach. We're talking about this because a manga that wasn't previously (as far as I know) seen this way decided to do a promo spread that was fanservice heavy. I know for a FACT that Bleach did that numerous times, and Cowboy Bebop also had many Faye promos. Code Geass is another one that had a heavy "fanservice promo/action-intrigue show" reputation, same for Death Note. |
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Shay Guy
 Posts: 2153 |
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I think it might be useful to have a word filter for "cultural Marxism" like the one for Street Journal Wall.
Ah! I see the horn now. Less recognizable with the altered color scheme.
I'm familiar with it. It's pretty much that kind of manga, as much as you get in Jump. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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Yep. This seems to be the new catchphrase for right-wing angst. It has been passed down from on high so we can probably expect to see it parroted a lot more. |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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Right on cue, the easily-offended call for censorship and speech-policing. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I'm not offended by it. ANN just tries to keep the forums clean of mindless catch phrases and one-liner buzzwords that people throw about to troll the forums. I expect that this will be one of those phrases.
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Shay Guy
Posts: 2153 |
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You lump an awful lot of things into "offended" that don't really fit under that umbrella. I consider your terminology -- pardon me if I offend you -- the mark of a person with ridiculous arguments and grievances, and think a substitution with, say, "Groucho Marxism" would help underline that. I hope my saying so does not violate Rule 1, but will accept the moderators' judgment if they say it does. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Are there really that many though? I know sex sells and all, but I never really believed there could be that many people who'd watch Cowboy Bebop to gawk at Faye or Bleach for, well, any number of characters. |
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Tarik Loq
Posts: 18 |
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Just because it isnt real doesnt mean it ''should'' be allowed. Type mistake |
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Velshtein
 Posts: 72 |
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Hopefully other mindless catch phrases and one-liner buzzwords words like prude, bigot, homophobe, sex negative, exclusive, intolerant, etc. will also be included. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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^
It's up to the admins to decide whether those words have meaning or not and are used in constructive ways or otherwise allow for serious discussion. Given that those words have been used for a long time and aren't censored, I think it's safe to assume some decision has been made in that regard 
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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Part of the reason the Comic Book Code was implemented back in the day (you can read "The Ten-Cent Plague" if you don't believe me) was because comic book publishers all were tripping over each other producing more and more lurid and violent stories--not even to push the envelope and progress the medium, but because bloody crime stories sold and you had to have the bloodiest, crime-iest story on racks if you wanted those dimes. Publishers got mad when there was an outrage over how exploitative this all was, but after failing to keep multiple promises to correct their course a loud public demanded action, hence the CCC.
The point I'm trying to get to is, the content isn't the problem. The problem is the intent behind it. It's pretty clear that this illustration is purely fanservice, and that in-and-of-itself isn't an issue. WSJ has had raunchy content since forever (and even Rumiko Takahashi has used naked boobs in her comics before). But when you're the highest-published comic in Japan with a very large population of young readers, you gotta know what you're doing when you go out of your way for a spread like this. It's not like Shueisha doesn't have magazines for older readers (JoJo doesn't run in WSJ, it runs in a seinen mag now for example), and it's not like editors don't request artists to redraw or change stories in numerous ways anyway (Sasuke Uchiha exists purely because Kishimoto's editor told him Naruto needed a rival). Either editors need to be more respectful of their audience and not publish cheap, exploitative fanservice just to get to the bottom of the barrell and get everyone's two-hundred yen, or editors toe the editorial line and keep the raunch in the magazine aimed at the appropriate age group. I'm not even mad, because the content isn't bad and the parent's aren't wrong--but come on, it's not hard to think about the possible negative repercussions to your work and being ready to accept responsibility for when your decisions go over badly. And if you think that's "self-censorship"... well, at least we know who hasn't worked in the media. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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People keep claiming that no one's ever complained about sexual content in manga back when it was more explicit, then note that people shouldn't complain now, because it isn't as explicit as it used to be, not making the connection to why the content shifted in the first place.
I don't think it's a coincidence that as more girls started reading shonen manga in the '90's, the content, especially sexualized content and character designs shifted a great deal. The girls were voting for what they wanted and voting out what they didn't. Shonen manga magazine surveys are more instant and direct than political elections! Series and even characters within series (which influences character types in subsequent series) are made and broken by those polls, and if you read about the history of manga (or read Bakuman, the manga about making manga) you'll know that whether and how much to pander to fans is a big deal to manga-ka and editors, but if you want to keep being published you'll generally go along with what the fans want--more attractive male characters, less panty shots. So yes, people "complained", at least in the sense of voting out content they didn't like. I also want to point out that it is very possible to have a successful shonen manga without (or barely any) fanservice, let alone the "lucky sukebe" kind. Do you remember any scenes in which Ed Elric accidently fell on a woman and groped her boobs? I do. It was in an awful, one-off, anime only filler episode in the original series in 2003. It stood out so much because it was a scenario Hiromu Arakawa would never write. In fact, Fullmetal Alchemist barely has any sexual content whatsoever (A character named Lust not withstanding, who's most lustful trait was a cleavage revealing dress with a slit). Yet it is one of the most popular shonen manga franchises in the world, inspiring two separate anime series, a theatrical movie for each, various OVAs, light novels, and now, a live action movie, years after the source material ended. Sex sells, but it's not the only thing that sells. A good story will sell, too, if it's lucky enough to stand out from the pack. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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Ed walked in on Winry changing her shirt, and we see Winry in the bath. The mangaka is also known for saying "Men should be muscular and women should be va-va-voom!” People forget shounen manga is aimed at boys, and boys like fanservice. Notice even the complainers mention they were talking about young boys being exposed to it. Female readers aren't an issue here, even if they read the series. Women also love One Piece and that series is brimming with sexy ladies. Let's not act like Japanese women are sex-hating prudes. Women draw some of the more sexual series out there. |
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