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Answerman - What's With All The School Uniforms In Anime? [2019-04-03]


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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:56 am Reply with quote
poltroon wrote:

For what it's worth, it's really challenging to do an accurate international comparison of school funding because each country has different accounting practices for what exactly is "education."


I'm sure that can complicate things, but I still stand by my statement. I remember reading a fantastic article a few years back which compared US public schools with the Catholic-run schools in the same state. (IIRC, it was New York) The Catholic schools spent less money per student than the state-run public schools did, yet they decimated the public schools in standardized testing. The reason came down to the fact that the Catholic schools had very little administrative costs (I believe that fewer than 10% of its employees were not teachers), whereas the public schools had something like 60% of its employees in non-teaching roles.

Another great example is the massive donation which Mark Zuckerberg and a few others raised to aid Newark schools. Zuckerberg himself donated 100 million dollars (!!!), and other philanthropists raised an equal amount, doubling the fundraising to 200 million (!!!). Yet if you read about it you'll learn how the administration and the higher-ups in the teacher's union squandered nearly all the money and there was practically no benefit in the end to the students.

I am not advocating for religious schooling but I think situations like these make it abundantly clear that most US public schools are hugely wasteful with how they spend their money. I saw it myself growing up. When I was in elementary school (K-5th grade), my school had a massive amount of technology, far more than an elementary school needed. We had a huge computer lab loaded with Apple IIs. We had huge (for the time) TVs and VCRs for watching educational films in every classroom even though we rarely used them. We had all kinds of fancy projectors, art supplies, unusually expensive musical instruments for grade school kids, an incredible library, etc....most of which never got used. OTOH, my intermediate school (grades 6-8), located in the same geographic area, was seriously wanting in all those things. I think they only had 4 TV/VCR carts for an entire school with around 2500 students! The "library" was a joke. There was no computer lab; instead, we had IBM selectric typewriters from the 1960s. I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. These two schools were just a few miles apart, yet for some reason one was radically overfunded while the other was underfunded. They didn't need "more money" to fix them problem, they just needed to spend what they had more wisely.

Quote:
But the biggest difference is health care...

that is a problem too, though I think that's more of a recent thing. When I went to school (I graduated HS in 1997 and college in 2002), the schools covered essentially zero health care costs, for anyone. They had a school nurse who might put a bandaid on your knee if your scraped it, but that was about it. Students who required medication or medical care were required to pay for those things themselves, the schools did not pay for it. In college we had a proper on-campus medical facility (which we students called the "quack shack"). You had to pay for its services. Fast forward to recent years: a friend of mine works for the state mental health agency and she often gets sent to schools to check up on a particular student's case. She has witnessed students in hospital beds, hooked up to all kinds of ventilators and monitors--sometimes not even conscious--sitting in the back of a classroom. Why, you ask? Well, after the "no child left behind" policy, a school can keep a student like that in a class, and then bill the government stacks of money for a "special needs case". As a result, many schools have eliminated "honors", "advanced", or "gifted and talented" education programs (those don't pay any extra compared to a normal student), and embraced more of these "unconscious kids in the back of the classroom" cases because those pay more. Needless to say it's massively wasteful financially, and it screws over everybody's education in the process.

I'll repeat myself here: the US doesn't need to spend more money on education. We need to work smarter and fix the problems which are fundamentally broken with our current system.
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poltroon



Joined: 26 Sep 2018
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:13 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
poltroon wrote:

For what it's worth, it's really challenging to do an accurate international comparison of school funding because each country has different accounting practices for what exactly is "education."


I'm sure that can complicate things, but I still stand by my statement. I remember reading a fantastic article a few years back which compared US public schools with the Catholic-run schools in the same state. (IIRC, it was New York) The Catholic schools spent less money per student than the state-run public schools did, yet they decimated the public schools in standardized testing. The reason came down to the fact that the Catholic schools had very little administrative costs (I believe that fewer than 10% of its employees were not teachers), whereas the public schools had something like 60% of its employees in non-teaching roles.


We're risking going off topic so I'll keep my response brief.

Catholic schools have a lot of advantages in the financial comparison which include that they pay their staff less, that they are not obligated to educate kids with disabilities or comply with the same kind of equal opportunity rules, and that they can expel students who are for any reason inconvenient. They rarely pay for transportation. FWIW, when you control for parental socioeconomic status, they aren't actually better at test scores or outcomes.


Quote:
Quote:
But the biggest difference is health care...

that is a problem too, though I think that's more of a recent thing. When I went to school (I graduated HS in 1997 and college in 2002), the schools covered essentially zero health care costs, for anyone. They had a school nurse who might put a bandaid on your knee if your scraped it, but that was about it. Students who required medication or medical care were required to pay for those things themselves, the schools did not pay for it.


The majority of the cost I mentioned isn't in band-aids in the school setting, it's in health insurance for employees which today can top $10k a person. However, there are also costs for students with disabilities where the accounting is again a factor. In the United States, if you need a specialized computer system or a full time attendant for a nonverbal student, that's paid for by the school. In other countries it might be covered by the health care system.

Those pictures of all those Japanese girls in miniskirt uniforms in the snow... you'd think that would lead to some excess health care costs!
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poltroon



Joined: 26 Sep 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:21 pm Reply with quote
What is the process for entering high school in Japan? I know there's a high school entrance exam - is that deterministic for most students or do most attend a school that is simply near their home?

Besides the uniforms, the other thing that is sometimes really jarring to me in anime is high school students living in the city in their own apartment to attend school quite far from home. Is that actually common?
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6874
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:11 pm Reply with quote
poltroon wrote:
Besides the uniforms, the other thing that is sometimes really jarring to me in anime is high school students living in the city in their own apartment to attend school quite far from home. Is that actually common?
This has been addressed in some past columns:

animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2017-01-16/.111067
animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2015-03-06/.85529

Short answer: yes, it's a thing, although it may be statistically overrepresented in the "anime protagonist" population.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:32 pm Reply with quote
AkumaChef wrote:
I'll repeat myself here: the US doesn't need to spend more money on education. We need to work smarter and fix the problems which are fundamentally broken with our current system.

Certainly the more important thing is to fix the fundamental problems with the system (beginning with creating an actual system, by the sounds of it), but I still think that overall more money than current is necessary. The schools that get money and can't think of anything more meaningful to do with it than spending it on things students might use are almost certainly less common than ones that can't afford basic needs.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
Posts: 821
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:51 am Reply with quote
poltroon wrote:

Catholic schools have a lot of advantages in the financial comparison which include that they pay their staff less, that they are not obligated to educate kids with disabilities or comply with the same kind of equal opportunity rules, and that they can expel students who are for any reason inconvenient. They rarely pay for transportation.

It sounds to me like the public school system could learn an awful lot from that. Or perhaps that the politicians involved could learn an awful lot from that. I'm not in favor of cutting the pay to teachers (quite the opposite, actually), but administrative costs are clearly out of hand. And while I think that everyone ought to have access to education, there are problems which can be fixed there too. It's wrong to deny someone schooling because they have a disability. But at the same time it's also wrong to give a large number of other students a substandard education because one among them has a disability. It's also financially untenable. I know it sounds cold and I'll probably catch flak for this, but if a student has such bad disciplinary or medical problems that it negatively affects others in the classroom, repeatedly, then I am absolutely in favor of removing that student from a standard school. That student with the discipline problem or the disability would probably get better education in a specialized school which can cater to their needs anyway. It's beneficial to all involved.

Quote:
FWIW, when you control for parental socioeconomic status, they aren't actually better at test scores or outcomes

Agreed. I wasn't claiming that they offered a better education in terms of test scores. My claim was that they offered an equally good education with far less money.

Quote:
The majority of the cost I mentioned isn't in band-aids in the school setting, it's in health insurance for employees which today can top $10k a person.

Gotcha, I know where you are coming from now. Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
What is the process for entering high school in Japan? I know there's a high school entrance exam - is that deterministic for most students or do most attend a school that is simply near their home?

My understanding is that some schools do not have entrance exam requirements and any student can get in. They're little different from public schools anywhere in the world. However, there are other schools which are more prestigious--generally in academics, but perhaps also in arts and sports--which require an entrance exam to get into. A student can choose which path they want to take. I assume it's quite a bit like College in the West: anyone can get into a community college. If you want to get into a fancier school there are various levels with progressively higher entrance requirements, prestige, and cost.

A short anecdote here: I remember watching the old Iron Chef TV show years back--the one from Japan which was dubbed on the Food Network--and there was one episode in which they talked about Masahiro Morimoto's past. While he is a famous chef today, apparently he was a skilled baseball player in high school and they talked about how some of the more prestigious high schools found out about his skills and tried to recruit him to transfer schools so they could improve their team.
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AkumaChef



Joined: 10 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:57 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

Certainly the more important thing is to fix the fundamental problems with the system (beginning with creating an actual system, by the sounds of it), but I still think that overall more money than current is necessary. The schools that get money and can't think of anything more meaningful to do with it than spending it on things students might use are almost certainly less common than ones that can't afford basic needs.


The reason I say that more money is not needed is because the statistics tell us otherwise. There are many countries which spend a fraction of the cost per student than the US does, and yet they trounce the US in standardized scores. The data are there for all to see; it's clearly possible to deliver a better education for less money, as many other countries have proven over and over again. Russia, for example, spends roughly 1/3 the money on education, yet delivers a better education. If they can do it so can the US. And that's just one example out of many.
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TsukasaElkKite



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 3960
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:26 am Reply with quote
I’m thankful that at my school (private Christian school), we didn’t have to wear uniforms, although the dress code was very strict.
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