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NEWS: Sunrise Plans for Gundam Anime's 30th Anniversary


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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7938
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:02 am Reply with quote
Guilhem wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
Ugh, those novels were awful. Tomino is a great director, but not such a good writer.
[...]

Poorly written but more interesting than the original TV series nonetheless: more mature characters, Amuro trained to pilot MS instead of learning in reading the manual, a very ambiguous relationship between Sayla and Char, an early introduction of Lala, an unexpected fate for Amuro, a clear development of his relationship with Sayla, some rather interesting thoughts about the links between democracy and autocracy (although not very developped but it's still better than nothing), a more detailed background concerning historical facts and various technical thingies, a far better depiction of Gihren Zabi and his tortured soul, and much more... I'd kill to get a truely faithfull adaptation of the original vision of Tomino instead of just another show which will bring nothing really new (though it'll probably be interesting as usual...), especially with current animation technologies


The novels were never the "original vision". They were different version Tomino began well after the series had started. And don't get me started on how hamstrung and choppy the narrative and its awful, forced "maturity", not to mention spoiler[offing the hero before it ends in the most brutally stupid manner]. And the dialogue is laughable. I generally love Tomino's directing, but often it was Sunrise who made the tough decisions that shaped the franchise into the juggernaut it became. He's a great director, but he's no writer and its sad to mistake him for one. Especially if the rumors regarding the intended path of the series were true. The bad ratings of the original series may have been a blessing in disguise.

Quote:
And while I'm at it, they can also remove the giant robots to come back to the very original roots of the concept with Starship Trooper like power armors instead of the cool but unrealistic MS: I do love them, yes, but I'd like to see something different for once, something which will allow to really focus onto the characters and their complex personnalities and relationships instead of always relying onto action scenes which more and more look alike in every new iteration of the franchise.


Then it won't be Gundam. Look for your powered suits elsewhere.

What you really seem to be saying is that they just need to stop doing Gundam. I'm fine with that. But they need to go out with a bang first. If I were Tomino, I'd find a way to definitively put the Newtype thing to bed. Gundam X had a different theory on them, but I felt like it was a bit of a cop-out. I want to believe in Newtypes.
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Guilhem



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:28 am Reply with quote
Yeah, me too I know one thing or two about Gundam, thank you, and I never said the novels were the original vision of the project but when I compare them with the scripts of the episodes which have been modified/canceled because of the bad audience rating I found them much more close to the original plot: have fun of me because I took a word for another one on the day after New Year's Eve and on a foreign board where the language is not my natural one, you look very smart like this yourself too

And I look for my powered suits where I want, dude, and they were supposed to be in Gundam until the toy manufacturers asked to Sunrise/Tomino/whoever you want to make them giant in order for this series to be closer to the 'normal' mecha shows of the moment, and what you think about this doesn't interest me

And what I really seem to be saying is what I was saying: something tells me you're the only one who misunderstood my previous post, therefore we may simply have to avoid to talk to each other in the future

Happy new year

[Post written before you added the latest lines into the very first paragraph of your own message, lines I'll not bother to reply to for obvious reasons...]
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wingzerosnuggles



Joined: 20 Oct 2008
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:54 am Reply with quote
I guess I'm alone on wanting more Wing. I'd love to see Episode Zero animated. It would have made the AC world make a lot more sense, especially Wufei's "misogyny." Actually, it would flesh a lot of the characters out a lot more. For one thing, Relena introducing herself to thin air would be explained. There's also the matter of Mariemaia's mother and who exactly raised Duo. Still, they just recently remastered Gundam Wing in HD so I'm not going to get my hopes up for more than that. Hey, at least I get to watch Wing look gorgeous for once. >_>

Blind Target would be nice to see animated, too. I just want to see the yaoi fangirls squirm at that rather "infamous" kiss. :p

Guh...if all they have to offer is the SEED movie...blech. I never liked the Cosmic Era.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14082
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:55 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Then it won't be Gundam. Look for your powered suits elsewhere.


Do you know what you are saying? Ignoring merchandising for a moment, Gundam was built on the back of the "Real Robot" vision that Tomino had. He wanted to do a story where the people - rather than the Mecha - should be the main characters. Where war was presented as a clash of conflicting ideologies rather than the stale good and evil angle. And yet, the MI of Heinlein are far more realistic than the supposedly well-thought-out Mecha from Gundam 00. And the story found in virtually any Gundam show? Utter bollocks, with both UC and AU productions found lacking.

Don't be too hasty to dismiss the idea. Yes, Powered Suits aren't Gundams, but then again maybe I don't want to watch another paper-thin show with a paper-thin plot and paper-thin characters and paper-thin relationships. Yes., I need a thesaurus. But maybe I want something that is actually good, actually realistic, where the main character isn't encased by a hundred miles of plot armour. I hate seeing a Mobile Suit outpace a fighter, because it completely ignores physics and sensible and cost-effective design strategies.

penguintruth wrote:
I want to believe in Newtypes.


They're fictional. No matter how much you believe, they aren't going to come true. And besides, do I really want unstable punks who don't even need to shave yet in the cockpit of 18-metre-tall robots? Kids who frequently get attracted to other Newtypes, to the point where they will jeopardise the lives of everyone on their side just to talk to their psycho girlfriend? Yeah, that's a harsh way of looking at it, but it is still accurate. Put simply, the methods used in almost every member of the franchise to insert drama are just awful. At best. I hope that for whatever Anime they are planning for the anniversary, they stay away from the star crossed lovers.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7938
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:04 am Reply with quote
dtm42, there are plenty of other science fiction programs out there that involve more compact robotic suits and powered armor. And they're fine, but they aren't Gundam. Gundam fans won't buy into it.

Look, there are certain elements that make Gundam what it is. If you're tired of them, you're tired of Gundam. And that's okay, I don't think Gundam needs to go on forever.

Funny how you should complain about paper-thin plots and characters, sine it's only in recent years that Gundam has been rife with those problems, with the CE era programs, which are about as nuanced as Bleach. At least Gundam 00 has somewhat redeemed the franchise with its creative spins.

Gundam is, at its core, about the awakening of mankind to a new age. So youth is essential to it, as its been to every production Yoshiyuki Tomino has ever been a part of. Sorry, but the "unstable punks" are a part of that.

And thanks for the reality check, because I was totally being literal when I said I want to believe in Newtypes. Wow, I am so dillusioned now! It's not at all like you completely missed the point I was making! Rolling Eyes


Last edited by penguintruth on Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Westlo



Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 1684
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:29 am Reply with quote
v1cious wrote:
there's a rumor floating around that Gintama's getting canceled, cause of this anniversary overhaul. this bothers me a lot.


Considering that Sunrise are animating 6 shows* this winter season and that Gintama is one of the best selling anime titles of 08 I rather doubt that.

* Those shows being long running mainstays in Keroro Gunsou & Gintama. Ongoing shows from Fall 08 in Gundam 00 S2 and Tales of the Abyss. And new shows this season KuroKami & The Girl Who Leapt Through Space.
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Craeyst Raygal



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 1383
Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Why is it that no-one's interested in having Hajime Katoki's Gundam Sentinel animated? I mean, let's face it, Katoki's mecha design is second to none to the point that I'd say that the Katoki designs in 0083, Wing, and 08th MS Team were some of those series biggest draws.
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TokyoGetter



Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 416
Location: CA. You can tell by the low moral standards.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:22 am Reply with quote
I'm a big, big fan of Gundam. A big fan, if not damn near an apologist. I think I was exposed to it at just the right time in my life, right when it made sense.

With that said, I haven't really seen the past few years as MASSIVE IMPROVEMENTS, but I do consider Seed and 00 to be light years better than the "let's forget the UC thing" period that the 90s were.

Flatly stated, I think they need to crap or get off the pot in terms of the actual animated series and what they hope to do with it. Igloo was fine, but it just re-iterated things we already knew about the world of classic Gundam. I'm enjoying 00, but I don't consider it Gundam in the strictest sense.

These days, a Gundam fan has only a few choices: it's between re-watching old series being re-animated with new names and faces or bathing in the nostalgia of old-school UC shows. Gundam exists as a cash cow that revels mostly in toy sales and models. I doubt the majority of the income comes from actual DVD sales.

(Granted I just bought the Zeta boxes, but it's been 14 years since I watched the first four episodes of Stardust Memory, for crying out loud! So what if 08th MS didn't work out... a director died and I still think it was OK, if not phenomenal)

The English-speaking fan is kind of up the creek at this point, seeing as how he or she won't have access to the plethora of UC-expanding manga and ephemera that have invaded other markets that expand the show in a not so rough-and-tumble manner. So if you don't like Gundam, which can be slow, which can be turgid, and which can be repetitive, well, you're screwed, because you'll be choking down massive 50 episode series that can get a bit confusing to a non-fan, if not downright boring.

I think 00 being broken into two was a good idea. I'd love to see a few smaller series, based on the UC Gundam timeline, that have nothing to do with Char or Amuro or poor replacements for the two. Tons of little cool side-stories could be animated, maybe even in a 13 episode OVA series. There's a lot of room there, certainly.

To re-iterate, Bandai doesn't make money on Gundam the TV show. They make it on the IDEA of Gundam the TV show. Unfortunately it may be difficult for them to turn that train around, seeing as how the investment model is easier for them in terms of toys than it is for expensive shows.

Regardless of all of that, I look forward to more shows in the future, and am stoked to celebrate 30 years.
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Kaioshin_Sama



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 1215
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:21 am Reply with quote
Here's to hopefully at least 30 more years of Gundam. How you can ever do away with something so ingrained in Japanese culture I don't know though, so I forsee that being a distinct possibility. Then again Godzilla might be over now so anything's possible I suppose. Anyway, enough musings, to 30 years and however many more.
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Majin Tenshi



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 433
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:38 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Majin Tenshi wrote:
the Char i admired in the original 0079 & Zeta was ruined and made into a joke in CCA.


I hear/read this charge a lot, that Char in CCA is out of character. He isn't. Go back and watch Zeta and notice a lot of forshadowing of his same lines in CCA. The only thing that happened was that Char became impatient, which Amuro points out.[/quote]

I don't need to re-watch Zeta, CCA or any other show again and again just to agree with your personal opinion and neither do you with mine. That's how things go in the real world.

bottom-line i don't like CCA and even Zeta isn't that great anymore for me after watching it over and comparing it to the Z movies (which IMO are more streamlined) and the recent Gundam shows.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:26 pm Reply with quote
Majin Tenshi wrote:
Zeta isn't that great anymore for me after watching it over and comparing it to the Z movies (which IMO are more streamlined) and the recent Gundam shows.


If by "streamlined" you mean it stripped Zeta Gundam of it's plot and complexities in favor of action sequences and unnecessary new filler scenes, without even attempting to addressing some of the flaws of the original television series, then yeah, it was real streamlined. And then there was that awful new "happy ending".

Those movies were a complete trainwreck. They took the greatest Gundam production of all time and turned it into garbage. You've got to be delirious to think the movies were better.
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Majin Tenshi



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 433
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:45 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:


Those movies were a complete trainwreck. They took the greatest Gundam production of all time and turned it into garbage. You've got to be delirious to think the movies were better.


I don't think that the movies, they are better for me and for others as well. To you and others perhaps it may not be the case. It seems that you're clueless on how things work out around you in the real world so my apology for trying to have an intellegent discussion.

Go back to watching anime or whatever you do best. I have better things to do than waste time on typical internet fanboys debates.

*END*
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StudioToledo



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Toledo, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:10 pm Reply with quote
GW-9800 wrote:
Xanas wrote:
I have this issue with Macross as well. I'd actually be somewhat interested (having read some of the Wikipedia page after watching Macross Frontier) in getting through the older story, but the older Macross doesn't look great to me.


Go watch "Macross: Do You Remember Love?". Puts A LOT of today's stuff to shame animation wise.

Really. People should watch this without question.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 7938
Location: Penguinopolis
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Majin Tenshi wrote:
penguintruth wrote:


Those movies were a complete trainwreck. They took the greatest Gundam production of all time and turned it into garbage. You've got to be delirious to think the movies were better.


I don't think that the movies, they are better for me and for others as well. To you and others perhaps it may not be the case. It seems that you're clueless on how things work out around you in the real world so my apology for trying to have an intellegent discussion.

Go back to watching anime or whatever you do best. I have better things to do than waste time on typical internet fanboys debates.

*END*


You sure have a way with arguing a position, sir.

The original Gundam movie trilogy took a 43 episode series and made it into three two and a half hour movies, focusing the Newtype theme. This was possible because there was a lot of exessive filler material in the original series. Zeta Gundam had no such issue, and yet they took a fifty episode series and condensed it into three ninety minute movies. Do you see the discrepency here?

The movies cut out most of the actual plot and character development and changed the ending for no good reason other than Tomino's new belief that "anime should make people happy". Gone is the Kilamanjaro arc. Gone is the Dekar episode, the heart of the series. Gone is any sembelence of development of Jerid Messa. Gone is the Rosammy arc which set the tone of the finale. And gone is the real finale. These weren't filler. They weren't unnecessary. They were the show. If you'd even watched the original series, I find it difficult to believe that you'd prefer such a chopped up version of it.

Bottom line, the movies are trash. They didn't even bother to do the whole thing in new animation. It shows that Sunrise has no respect for their own classics.
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Cyan Bloodbane



Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 105
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 5:57 am Reply with quote
Anything UC related would be excellent.

And while I'm dreaming, an animated version of "Blue Destiny" would be swell...
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