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Shelf Life - Dirty Dancing


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JLightstar



Joined: 06 Nov 2005
Posts: 140
Location: Venice, Florida
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:19 pm Reply with quote
I know I am gonna be called a noob for this but I didn't know Dirty Pair was an anime... The only time I ever heard about the series is when Wizard Magazine did an article with Adam Warren and it had featured it. I was under the impression for the longest time that he had created it for Dark Horse.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:23 pm Reply with quote
GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
My apologies, I wasn't implying your age, I was just wondering his age since he was probably a young teen around the time "anime clubs" became quite popluar underground.

Did you know that A-kon is like the oldest known American anime con? Its been around since '88.

It's cool, I was just joking.

Noah went to some early A-kons, including A-kon 6 (or was it 8?) when the power went out during a severe thunderstorm.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:39 pm Reply with quote
Ah the original Dirty Pair, that brings back some memories. I can highly recommend DP Flash OVA too. The designs were updated for the 90's, but they were just as good and took nothing away from the kick ass story and plot.
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zrdb





PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:14 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
Ah the original Dirty Pair, that brings back some memories. I can highly recommend DP Flash OVA too. The designs were updated for the 90's, but they were just as good and took nothing away from the kick ass story and plot.


Damn straight!!!!!
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3489
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Ian K wrote:
It's a show about two women (based on female wrestlers) who work as bounty hunters and blow up anything that gets in their way. How does it sound like a manifestation of Japanese Imagination Handicap?

Hey, like I said, I haven't seen it, I was just basing it off Erin's description there.

Quote:
Also, I'd point out that just because we can imagine a world where everybody is equal and we all sing kumbiya and dance into the sunset doesn't mean it's likely to happen. This in no way excuses lazy or misogynist writing, of course, but I'd like to read more SF that deals with how frictions between genders and ethnicities will be affected by scientific and technological advances, beyond simply assuming they'll disappear.

Yeesh, that's not what I meant at all. A "kumbaya" world would be boring.My problem is that a lot of Japanese sci-fi simply projects current gender standards into the future unchanged.

Quote:
(Except for the sub-genre of super feminist SF where women fleeing the patriarchy establish their own planet where they all become lesbians and clone new babies - all girls, of course. Important, maybe, but not really my cup of tea.)

Oh come on, most of those are straw-feminist pieces where eventually we discover women really need men...

Quote:
And remember, the second season of GitS:SAC had empowered women and all that jazz, bu it also had (for me) disturbingly ethno-centric nationalism, too.

Well, in a "don't get involved militarilty in world conflicts" sort of way, yeah. Mamoru Oshii wrote the scenario for the season, and he's very pissed about American military bases in Japan and the hypocritical use of the SDF. I take it as a warning piece against rightist trends, and sort of positive nationalism; it advocates for the refugees against those who'd get rid of them, and argues that true nationalism is to not become a military power again. But it's definitely a series open to interpretation, which is part of why I like it. It does look at issues of nationality and race in the wake of new technology.
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Ian K



Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 250
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:02 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Yeesh, that's not what I meant at all. A "kumbaya" world would be boring.My problem is that a lot of Japanese sci-fi simply projects current gender standards into the future unchanged.


Sorry, I didn't really think you did. Since you were talking about the lack of gender equality in books, I wanted to clarify that books can depict sexism without being sexist themselves - a pretty obvious point, and one that didn't really need to be mentioned, but I generally have trouble shutting up once I get on a roll.

Quote:
Oh come on, most of those are straw-feminist pieces where eventually we discover women really need men...


Really? I guess I should read a few, for fairness' sake. I don't have any strong opinions about them, I'm just sort of fascinated that they exist.

Quote:
Well, in a "don't get involved militarilty in world conflicts" sort of way, yeah. Mamoru Oshii wrote the scenario for the season, and he's very pissed about American military bases in Japan and the hypocritical use of the SDF. I take it as a warning piece against rightist trends, and sort of positive nationalism; it advocates for the refugees against those who'd get rid of them, and argues that true nationalism is to not become a military power again. But it's definitely a series open to interpretation, which is part of why I like it. It does look at issues of nationality and race in the wake of new technology.


I can't say I'm really happy about GitS:SAC's depiction of the US, but in this post 9/11 world I have to admit that it is a fair criticism (and its not like Hollywood is known for its nuanced villains). In general, I suppose the nationalism the show advocates is pretty positive. The thing that irritates me is that they kick the refugees out in the end, though - I don't think we can solve the world's immigration problems by segregating people, just the opposite in fact. And with its declining population, I think Japan needs to become more accepting of immigrants in general. This is easy for me to say as an American, though, and not a member of a society that bases its identity on race.
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bravetailor



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 817
PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:34 am Reply with quote
Ian K wrote:
I can't say I'm really happy about GitS:SAC's depiction of the US, but in this post 9/11 world I have to admit that it is a fair criticism (and its not like Hollywood is known for its nuanced villains). In general, I suppose the nationalism the show advocates is pretty positive. The thing that irritates me is that they kick the refugees out in the end, though - I don't think we can solve the world's immigration problems by segregating people, just the opposite in fact. And with its declining population, I think Japan needs to become more accepting of immigrants in general..


But as you noted earlier, fiction can show something without actually promoting it. Do you feel that the show truly is unsympathetic to the refugee plight and is really promoting segregation? I always got the feeling that it was skeptical about how everything turned out. If the creators actually felt that the end of GITS 2nd Gig was the positive outcome, I can see how you can be irritated. But I don't get it at all. In fact, the show seems to bend over backwards to show the consequences of Japan's handling of the refugees and their exploitatation of them and that the end of GITS 2nd Gig is actually a return to uneasy status quo with the warning that it could easily get worse again in the future.

I think its sympathetic treatment of Kuze is kind of a cautionary tale of how a justified backlash could occur when refugees are treated like second class citizens. I'm not sure it's actually proposing that revolution as envisioned by Kuze is necessarily wise or feasible--just that the reaction is understandable.

A lot of people are offended by the show's portrayal of other nationalities...but it's not like the show is any less harder on the Japanese itself. If this show weren't made in Japan, a person would think that the writers in 2nd Gig portray Japanese politics as made up of a bunch of shifty eyed opportunists and dysfunctional suits. The "Go Japan!" climax of 2nd Gig is painted with a very skeptical eye, though some would read it as nationalistic, I'm sure. The dialogue in the cherry blossom epilogue between Batou and the others would seem to confirm that the supposedly "positive" nationalistic ending is actually not a very good thing at all.

Quote:
This is easy for me to say as an American, though, and not a member of a society that bases its identity on race.


Much of the inspiration behind 2nd Gig was, in fact, based partly on the immigrant situation happening in the United States. And the fact that we already see signs that the attitudes portrayed in 2nd Gig is not necessarily entirely far off from the attitudes being thrown about from both the left and right regarding the immigrant situation in the U.S.

And because nations tend to shift towards a harder right in times of economic stress, we already see many divisive attitudes about race popping up in North America. Even up here in Canada, I've had lengthy discussions with people regarding race, refugees, multiculturalism, and there are trends going on that is already quite disturbing.

But this is probably going way off topic. So I'll shut it. Smile
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