Forum - View topicINTEREST: Animation Veteran Claims That Industry Newcomers Only Make 120 Yen An Hour
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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Most attempts at marketing towards western audience have been met with mediocrity or failure. Japan is where the money is always at at the end of the day. -Stuart Smith |
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mdo7
 Posts: 6262 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Uh, didn't I already mention Japan got out of recession and it's because of their export. If Japan keep their stuff in Japan, then it's not going to work because of the tax hike and the over-priced DVDs/blu-ray. |
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reanimator
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Animators & animation production studios are already paid by Aniplex and other production committee as production budget. Lower the budget, the more problem for animators' pay. That is something every entertainment industry goes through. Pay level of animators varies from company to company. Some studios pay well while others (most likely subcontractors) don't. That's why there are so many conflicting info on pay level of average animators. By contract, animators don't get a share of merchandise profit because they are only contracted to draw. Show me an animator who get profit share from any popular TV animation franchise. Only who get profit share is director and writer. However, animators make dojinshi's of their drawings and sell them at Comiket. Rights holders overlook such practice because it costs a lot for them to publish key animation art book of some flopped show. For example, how many people are likely to buy mass-produced, official, non-dojinshi key animation art book of anime, "Problem Children are coming from Another world, aren't they"? Probably few hundred. Luckily individual animators and their fan circle will gather up the drawings and publish them as dojinshi with moderate profit. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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You wanna complain about "slave wages"? Look in the freaking mirror. At the end of the day, I don't know exactly what it is, but it's at whatever people can afford, and if they raise the cost of making it then Japan will do like the US and just shift to "reality TV" (in Japan's case, aka EVEN MORE "variety" shows) since that is (comparatively) really cheap to make. You wanna make things better, then BUY anime.
Let's do some basic math. Take a 13 episode series (gonna use Yuki Yuna as example here) it has 13 episodes which got released in Japan probably on 7 DVDs (crazy right?) probably around $70/disc (INSANE, right?) = $2.45mil if they sell 5,000 of each disc. Not break-out hit, but not a bomb either. (easier in dollars atm, so just gonna go with that). Yuki Yuna's staff is listed here: anime#16171 If I COMPLETELY IGNORE all the "producers" and only look at listed directors, animators, sound, etc, plus ALL voice actors, that's around 60 people. (Now, note, that list (and number) does NOT include all the inbetweeners, probably MOST of the key framers and doubtfully any Production Assts, at MINIMUM (since all of those are just listed by company)) So $2.45mil divided by 60 people (even wage to everyone) means $41k. BUT There are 17 COMPANIES listed for "inbetween animation", 9 COMPANIES listed for "finish animation" and 14 COMPANIES listed for "Key Animation (or 2nd Key animation)". If we assume each COMPANY listing only counts for ONE person (hahahaha) then that raises our production to 100 people (again, still not counting a single named "producer"), and the $2.45mil is good for about $25k per person. There are further companies listed for 3dCG, Production, Photography, Backgrounds, Animation Production and other tasks. If a PERSON can work on two 1 cour series a year and we assume it'd need around 200 people to make it happen, that's about $12k/person per show. And that's with no margin for "flops" or assuming they'll average out ok with some hits. According to this (believe it or don't): http://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/9238/is-the-manabi-line-a-correct-way-for-estimating-anime-profit-loss 10k+ units moved are "show of the year" sales level, if you have 2 shows below the Manabi line and one "big hit", you're averaging in the 5k range. So yeah, the question isn't "would you be willing to have half as many shows" the question is "are you really willing to pay more for your anime"? Last edited by HeeroTX on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:01 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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When you work on a production like an anime, you sign a contract saying that the work you make belongs to the company and not you. You'll still receive credit, as it's legally required, but you won't be getting anything extra for doing a particularly superb job except for a higher chance at promotion. As for the merchandise manufacturers, how money flows around varies on a case-by-case basis. To sell a licensed product, the company making the product most commonly pays a fee negotiated by the legal teams of the product's company and the anime's company or companies, and someone will come over and inspect the product for accuracy and whether or not it supports the brand's image. (How closely they scrutinize the product depends on the company and the franchise itself.) The money obtained selling the merchandise will either be shared by the manufacturer and the anime studio(s) with the manufacturer getting the majority, or the manufacturer gets all of the profits in exchange for a higher license fee upfront. For the merchandise, ownership belongs to the manufacturer as well, not the team that makes the product. |
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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@reanimator and leafy sea dragon, thanks for the explanations. So basically, a combination of the production committee and the studio determines how much the staff gets paid. And since the company owns the IP, any profit from the show goes to the company. And it's similar for merchandise manufacturers, but instead of owning an IP, they own the license for the product.
I guess I see why it can be tough to make a living as animator. And I also see why some people in the industry are getting interested in alternative ways to fund a show, like how the Under the Dog creators went to Kickstarter. |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2425 Location: Germany |
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This is how anime are done today: animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05
Last edited by residentgrigo on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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You didn't account for operating costs (rent, utilities, taxes, equipment), which take a portion of that dough. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Heh, I didn't account for a lot of costs, heck I explicitly cut producers out of the process/budget altogether. And even WITH those concessions made, you're still not talking big money once you split it out through everyone involved. The closest analogue would be the video game industry. You have a team of (relatively) underpaid people who love the industry churning out material, and if the company doesn't produce a solid hit it goes under. (speaking of which, there's numerous stories of (American) gaming companies closing shop and then not paying their employees (especially low-wage testers), so which is worse, getting paid slave wages, or nothing (and not saying that EITHER is good or acceptable, just saying there's definitely worse going on)) |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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The bigger problem is that it assumes every company involved in any capacity is getting money from the number of discs sold and ignores other revenue streams. |
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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Yeah, but if the the studio in question is trying to make it big on originals, those revenues streams may not be opened yet, and might never if the show doesn't catch on, i.e. Space Dandy.
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Fedora-san
 Posts: 464 |
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Animation is definitely a job you only get into if you love the medium, which is a good thing and a bad thing I suppose. Bad for obvious low pay, but good in that the people in it love the medium which is why we can get what we get. Dedicated creators and animators who style have become very recognizable. It's always great when you can tell who did the key frames or animation for certain scenes.
Meanwhile, doujin circles can make 6 figures. While I question how legitimate the 120 yen pay is and how widespread it is, considering the other people in the industry debunking it, it is a bit funny to think people who make a career on fan works can earn more money than those making the actual work. As far as grunt animators are concerned, that is. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Just to throw another wrinkle in there, I KNOW some professionals (Noizi Ito, character designer for Haruhi and other shows) have had doujinshi (of their own not at the corporate booth) at Comiket, so its at least POSSIBLE for them to play the angles for themselves too. |
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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They're still there though which makes their little math exercise irrelevant. |
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reanimator
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You may think their method is irrelevant, but we're talking about pricey media which most people forget after the show is over. Unfortunately, most anime are like that. Compared to other revenue streams, discs sales bring majority of investment return quicker than smaller, trickling revenue from somewhere else. |
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