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Well, at least now we know how Crunchyroll is going to be doing those home releases. Glad to see they're partnering up with an established company rather than trying it on their own.

Looking forward to buying more Gintama Very Happy

getchman wrote:

its just the dubs for shows that Crunchy owns that will be moving to funi. Pretty sure the dubs from Media Blasters will stay.

I'm not so certain about that. Media Blasters still get paid and get publicity for their titles. I would expect Funimation might be the more reticent party, as they are providing publicity and funding to a direct competitor for home video licensing (albeit not much of one).

I also don't see Aniplex having a problem with it. They had already provided Funimation with the Durara dub. Given that Aniplex is far more of a competitor to Funimation for home video licenses (or more to the point, buyer dollars) than Media Blasters, I guess they wouldn't be so reticent about displaying Media Blaster's titles after all.

getchman wrote:

most of Funi's sub catalog will be going to Crunchy. they will have handful of titles staying due to licensing contracts

If they already know which ones, then they are already overdue in making said list public. It would make sense that they are still negotiating a transfer, but when all is said and done it would be nice to know what will happen when said contract expires, would Crunchy have first dibs on renewing subtitled streaming rights? it or is this just an excuse to keep shows like One Piece? Will this affect ongoing negotiations for sequels like AoT 2 or Super Dragonball?

peno wrote:

That doesn't mean the dub budget is high. The main point of taking the Pokémon dub from 4Kids in 2006 was lowering the dub price and I doubt they would've wanted to go higher, just because they got some TV deals. And in Yu-Gi-Oh I noticed significant decrease in the number of VAs, since 4Kids practically went into bankruptcy, which usually means lowering dub budget. Not to mention even under 4Kids the dub budget wasn't really that big, since they had to save money on pointless paint edits and cuts Laughing

I never said they were high budget productions. You asked if it was possible for those two shows to go on as long as they have if they were produced under union conditions. I said yes. They're both shows that air on TV in multiple countries. Even if that doesn't bring in much revenue, the shows are just commercials for related products.

The main point of Pokemon USA assuming complete control over the franchise was to cut out the middleman. They did the exact same thing with the TCG and Wizards of the Coast. It's the same exact thing Aniplex of America is doing. The same exact thing Daisuki is trying (and failing) to do, etc. Though, in the case of 4Kids and Pokemon, IIRC there was some nastiness over unpaid home video royalties with the Japanese production companies.

TheAncientOne wrote:

getchman wrote:

its just the dubs for shows that Crunchy owns that will be moving to funi. Pretty sure the dubs from Media Blasters will stay.

I'm not so certain about that. Media Blasters still get paid and get publicity for their titles. I would expect Funimation might be the more reticent party, as they are providing publicity and funding to a direct competitor for home video licensing (albeit not much of one).

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. Do you believe MB's dubs will move to Funi or stay on CR?

angelmcazares wrote:

Just Passing Through wrote:

Not much is going to change for companies like Sentai, as (and correct me if I'm wrong) they don't licence home video rights from Crunchyroll, they license them from Japan. They're still going to go for the shows they would have gone for, and if CR gets the streaming rights, they'll show up on Crunchyroll as well, as has always happened.

Unfortunately for Sentai it looks like they cannot license many new shows because the asking prices for licenses have gone way up, and apparently only Crunchyroll and Funimation can afford to pay them. Sentai is my favorite anime company, and I want to believe that they will still be able to license at least 20 new shows every year.

And there is a high probability that the physical rights of shows, not licensed by Funimation, Aniplex USA, or Ponycan USA, that stream on Crunchyroll will also be owned by CR.

Yeah, the unsustainably high licensing costs are probably part of the reason why we've seen Sentai not only cut back on simulcasts, but also on dubbing. If you're spending $2 million on certain 13 episode series, there really isn't much money left to invest in dubs, packaging, and marketing.

However, if this does eventually lead to lower licensing costs, or some Japanese companies turn more to Sentai, Viz, or even Discotek, it could end up being a positive for them in the long term. If prices go down, they could start acquiring more new shows after a while, and it could free up more money for production of dubs.

Honestly, the home video market perhaps looks a bit bleaker in some aspects. Yes, anime home video sales are still increasing, but is the increased size of the market going to be enough to support Funimation potentially doubling their output during some months? That's really hard to say. One of the big problems with the last anime bubble was that simply too many new releases were coming out every month, and often companies like ADV or Geneon would even have multiple releases during the same week. There's a big potential for market cannibalization here.

I have a very, very strong feeling that Sentai will be releasing more premium sets over the next year. Not only will help differentiate their products in the market, but they also produce more revenue per unit, and in turn, higher profits. Not to mention, in a few cases they've allowed them get around the bluray hold back period that some companies insist upon, as the Japanese companies also get more revenue from their percentage of the sales.

TheAncientOne wrote:

On the censorship front, I'm more concerned about how titles that start as censored simulcasts and then home video rights are later obtained are handled.

Currently, when Funimation has a simulcast and later obtains the home video materials, the broadcast subtitled version is replaced with the home video version (with all corrections added and censorship removed) for subscribers. The question is, with the subtitled versions residing on CR, will these get updated, or remain the broadcast versions? If the latter, this represents a downgrade back to the old days of "Want the final version? Watch the dub".

I would expect that for Funimation's existing titles that were originally simulcasts but now have the home video versions available on Funimation's site, CR will get those versions, but I would be hesitant to bet anything valuable on that. I don't recall if Grimgar or Psycho-Pass had specific scenes that could be checked for censorship or differences, but once those appear on CR they could be scrutinized to determine which versions CR is receiving.

That is a good question. I suspect for CR nothing will change even after getting into the home video business. Simulcast versions remain and older shows from other publishers would be the home video versions. Free! has not been replaced with the home video version even though they have the rights for example. Funimation will likely want to retain this state of affairs too.

It does make me a little worried about CR-owned home video releases, if they are truly getting the home video versions and any extras.

As far as detecting which version a publisher is using, there is a set of automated tools to check for differences in each frame of video. While censorship differences or extended episodes will be the easiest for a human to detect, if there are none, the corrections that are always made for home video will be the evidence.

I see the partnership of FuniRoll as largely beneficial. More English versions appearing alongside subbed content is always a good thing! Smile

I wonder how the other companies (minus Aniplex and Pony Canyon) will react to the changing forces of the anime world...

This seems like a smart and productive move. No complaints here. I really look forward to simuldubs! Very Happy

Last edited by TheAncientOne on Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:31 am; edited 1 time in total

getchman wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what you are saying here. Do you believe MB's dubs will move to Funi or stay on CR?

I believe they'll probably move to Funimation.

Snakebit1995 wrote:

This is wow...I don't really see too much of a downside with this. Fans really win in thes scenario, maybe now people won't have to complain when one company picks up a series and not another.

One potential downside could be the loss of Funimation's current process of replacing simulcast versions of subtilted shows with the home video version for subscribers after Funimation has received those materials.

In a topic over on CR where this issue was raised, a CR staff member replied:

Quote:

We'll use whatever material is provided to us. We don't censor anything ourselves.

While perhaps they were just replying with the standard response about censorship, this makes it appear there is no policy set in place for these updates, as currently happens on Funimation's site. The fact that Funimation also didn't address this in their own FAQ makes me suspect it is the latter.

This could mean a return to the old days of "Want the uncensored/final version? Gotta watch the dub or buy it on home video".

It doesn't help that Funimation's forums are unavailable, so there is no public way to query them and obtain a response on this matter. (They don't appear to respond to comments in their blog).

From a dubbing standpoint, I don't see a problem with this: apart from some late 90's/early 2000's gems, no dub by any company other than Funimation has been worth much of a damn (I'm looking at you, Sentai!). Can't say I'm upset at the idea of Funimation dubbing Cruncyroll's back catalog.

Also, it looks like I can finally cancel my Hulu subscription. Funimation was really the only reason I had it. Crunchyroll, it is.

I'm mostly concerned with how this will affect subtitling: will Crunchyroll be responsible for subbing even Funi's shows or are they going to continue shoving their abysmal work down everyone's throat? (I'm under no illusions that CR will go back and fix the catalogue shows)

Polycell wrote:

I'm mostly concerned with how this will affect subtitling: will Crunchyroll be responsible for subbing even Funi's shows or are they going to continue shoving their abysmal work down everyone's throat? (I'm under no illusions that CR will go back and fix the catalogue shows)

Since only CR would be streaming the subtitled version, I expect Funimation would be content to let them handle that burden. Funimation would only need the subtitles for a home video release, and they could always redo or revise them at that point if they were not content with CR's efforts.

I'm going to remain rather cautious with this news considering when you combine CR and FUNi, you get almost quite literally a monopoly on new anime. You want competition, it's supposed to be a good thing.

Also, Sentai Filmworks is now even more screwed than before. Looks like they really will have to now go become like Discotek and RightStuf and get catalog shows even though those don't do nearly as well as newer shows. Only new titles they still have any real chance at are some TBS ones thanks to their longtime relationship with them.

idkAlan wrote:

Actually it feels more like Funimation and Crunchyroll realized that because Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and now Yahoo are dipping their feet in the anime market, Funi and Cr would have to get together and try to withstand the newer, more financially stronger players.

So Sentai, Diskotek, Nisa, Media Blasters, and maybe Viz might suffer the harshest fate.
Though because Viz is backed by Shuisha and Viz is on friendly terms with both Funi and Cr, I could see Viz entering this deal

Yahoo! only has anime thanks to their partnership with Hulu as that's where the free catalog is moving (Hulu is now subscription-only), and Hulu only would get anime companies gave to them. Never in the 8+ years Hulu has been streaming anime have ever gotten stuff themselves, so Hulu and Yahoo! aren't really dipping their feet. Not to mention Hulu purged hundreds of titles from their service this year and stopped taking new shows entirely. Last new show added was My Hero Academia from Spring 2016...

Also NISA hasn't licensed anything in quite a while, they're pretty much done with anime now. Discotek and Media Blasters stick to older titles, so they're not going to be that affected financially. VIZ Media also is mainly a manga company, they rarely license anime anyway.

crx07 wrote:

Vannil wrote:

i think this is going to be a win. but the real question is though: does that mean the japan based publishers like aniplex, ponycanyon etc.. going to be on board with this?

I also have that similar concern. But more on Kadokawa. Kadokawa seems to hate Funi. If Crunchy respects Kadokawa, then there's no HxH Magias, New Game!, Ange Vierge, and Re:Zero. If Crunchy disregards Kadokawa, Kadokawa may partner to Amazon in the future. A disaster!
If Kadokawa still hates Funimation, and Crunchyroll does not want to lose Kadokawa anime, then there will be no dubs from Kadokawa anime like KonoSuba, Re:Zero, and Bungo Stray Dogs.

Kadokawa has had issues with FUNi in the past, but it was FUNi's own damn fault for not listening. They attempted to release Strike Witches 2 and Heaven's Lost Property: Forte on Blu-ray too close to the most recent/upcoming JP releases. That's what led to that period of DVD-only Kadokawa titles while Sentai Filmworks with their Kadokawa titles was unaffected as they didn't piss Kadokawa off, but this happened years ago.

As for now, Kadokawa doesn't have as much issue with FUNi. Also keep in mind that FUNi is just distributing these titles, they don't have the actual license (though in this deal they also get to make the design/packaging decisions).

Oh BTW, Re:ZERO is NOT handled by Kadokawa internationally, TV Tokyo is handling it. If anyone has been paying attention to the CR show page or the actual episodes...
http://i.imgur.com/Kc80C2S.png
http://i.imgur.com/3RH6wGs.png

So even if in some strange universe Kadokawa wouldn't allow FUNi to just simply distribute the home video release of Kadokawa titles on CR's behalf, it wouldn't affect Re:ZERO because they don't control the international rights.

Just Passing Through wrote:

I don't know why people are concerned about other distributors being left out by this. Not much is going to change for companies like Sentai, as (and correct me if I'm wrong) they don't licence home video rights from Crunchyroll, they license them from Japan. They're still going to go for the shows they would have gone for, and if CR gets the streaming rights, they'll show up on Crunchyroll as well, as has always happened.

The only company that might be inconvenienced is Diskotek, who have distributed for CR in the past, but as the majority of their cataogue is vintage anime, I doubt they'll be too inconvenienced.

Funimation will be able to distribute those CR titles for which CR has home distribution rights, and I doubt that's even 1% of their catalogue.

Here's the thing, CR will now be grabbing home video rights to shows, possibly to everything they try to get streaming rights for, and FUNi already is doing that for pretty much everything they license. Also, CR and FUNi alone grab like 90%+ of every anime season these days. So, in other words, Sentai now has WAY less options because the home video rights have already been taken. They are effectively screwed, and many knew this was going to be the case the moment CR had already mentioned they would be pursuing home video rights instead of just releasing whatever was bundled (as many won't let you get just one or the other, it has to be both streaming and home video rights). CR is no longer just simply a streaming company, they are now acting like an anime licensor, albeit having FUNimation do most of the work with the discs and dubbing.

Also, if anyone has actually been paying attention, this season Sentai has licensed only Momokuri (which recently got its TV airing, it premiered as an ONA in December 2015) and Food Wars! S2. As it stands, next season they may have almost nothing to pick from except sequels. They're now going to have to go and grab catalog titles as that's going to be like their only option save for the occasional TBS title (thanks to TBS's strong relationship with Sentai, though now FUNi is able to touch some of those titles). Also catalog titles while they can sell don't do nearly as well as newer shows for obvious reasons. It's going to be a very hard time for Sentai from here on out.

I can see one big problem with this other than the effects on Sentai. If/when this partnership goes down the tube, what happens to all the series that were released in the interim? I can only imagine that they will go out of print, unless Funimation is actually the primary home video license holder for most of them. Because since Crunchyroll is leaving that part to Funimation, they would have to start over from zero on their physical releases, and might just decide that it's not worth the bother to go about repackaging (i.e., removing Funimation logos, etc) and reprinting them.

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