Forum - View topicHow Bloom Into You Defies and Reinforces Yuri Tropes
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KENZICHI
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I totally agree with yurigasaki and kotomikun.
As for me, and maybe it’s because there was such a long wait between this book and the last but Yuu seemed incredibly out of character to me after her and Touko got together. It just seemed like everything happened so fast after that like her fumbling-school-girl-in-love attitude and her initiating their first intimate night together when in the past she was never that eager to touch her like that even when she started developing feelings. I’ll reread the whole story later to see if this opinion changes, but I definitely related to Yuu in several ways as an asexual myself and just the sudden eagerness to be with and be intimate with Touko seemed out of the blue for her. I can either attribute this to Yuu being excited about her first love or inconsistent writing. |
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YuriMother
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I want to be clear if you saw asexual representation in Bloom Into You and liked it, that is fantastic. On my part, I am very unsatisfied with the asexual representation in the series. I firmly believe that Yuu was never written to be asexual, especially given the revelation behind her difficulty falling in love as explained in the last volume; that her experience and difficulty with affection were a plot point used to further her relationship and journey. However, these viewpoints should not and in no way invalidate your experiences or reactions to the story.
I advocate for improved representation across all forms of manga, especially better representation of lesbians in Yuri, as they are often lesbian content without lesbian identity. However, more than possibly any other identity, asexuality has been widely misconstrued by media and underrepresented. We need more works like Mine-Kun is Asexual and Our Dreams at Dusk, which allow for characters to be explicitly ace and do not use a struggle of falling in love as a plot device for dramatic purposes, as Bloom Into You did. Lastly, I know that some people think I am too harsh on the series, but I believe that we can point out the flaws in a series while still loving it. And I do love Bloom Into You, very much. I have been averment supporter of the manga and light novels and strongly encouraged many people to buy them. I even named the series as one of my top Yuri of the past 100 years https://okazu.yuricon.com/2020/01/04/100-years-of-yuri-2020-project-guest-post-by-nicki-bauman/ In short, keep loving Bloom Into You and fight like hell for better asexual representation in media! Thank you, everyone, for your comments. I appreciated reading every one and gaining more insight into others' views and opinions. |
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Heishi
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Ehhhhhhhh for me, when it comes to the “predatory lesbian” trope, I will always prefer Chikane Himemiya to much worse characters who don’t get any better or see the error of their ways...like Haruka Nishida from Kanamemo.
Hell, she is the only one I actually love. |
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zarzam
Posts: 19 |
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Historically, it used to be very much the case until recently, and it was a huge turn-off for me since it feels very offensive. But you're right that it seems buried n the past now. |
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Zormau
Posts: 2 |
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Disclaimers:
I have only a relatively small inventory of dedicated Yuri media under my belt, I've dabbled more in het romance so far. YagaKimi is one of the few anime adaptations that convinced me to go to the source, which goes to show how much the show (and later the manga, which I followed and bought religiously) impressed me. On to the matter at hand: I feel that there are several issues with the article, some entirely down to different ideas and expectations towards literature, others due to differences in how we interpret what we read. Starting from the beginning: Unlike Yurimother's comments earlier in the thread, it absolutely comes across as "tropes are bad, hmkay?" in the article. Evidence comes in the form of word choice ("submit" to tropes, "tying it down" with tropes) and a general exultation of breaking as many tropes as possible as a virtue in itself. I know literary criticism loves "original" works, but originality doesn't actually make for a better story. The Lord of the Rings isn't so fantastic because of its originality. It may have been the first major title to establish a lot of fantasy tropes, but the fact that it's still fantastic if you've seen the tropes in countless other media before reading/watching LotR shows that it's simply a great narrative, whether it is perceived as original by the consumer or not. Tropes are not evil. They are not "the bad". They exist for good reasons: they have proven to work, to facilitate (widely) relatable character design, to anchor the narrative and the world in a context and cotext that we are either somewhat familiar with or directly relate to. Every narrative embraces some tropes while breaking others. Even Wanna go out/How do we Relationship (as the new official title goes). That being said, I also take umbrage with painting tropes that are pretty much universal across anime and manga as "Yuri" tropes. StuCo- and Club-Settings are absolutely par for the course in high school rom-com and slice-of-life manga and anime, I don't really see how it's specifically a "Yuri" trope. Those settings serve to create a relatively isolated, sensible meeting place and common ground that's neither too intimate nor too distant. Working on the cultural festival as a club, having a sports festival, all those are anime/manga tropes, not Yuri tropes. Mind you, it could be my relative inexperience with Yuri specifically that the specific cultural festival activity "play" and the specific club choice of "StuCo" don't scream "Yuri" for me. Likewise, I don't see quite as much difference between the "girl meets girl" structure and "boy meets girl". Both are generally played out as described, with one party either being hesitant towards or unaware of their own or the other's developing feelings. The rather uncommon aspect of one party confessing to the other early in the story may be more common in Yuri than in het manga/anime, but it doesn't appear as the norm to me. I found Touko actively engaging and (at least to her) openly pursuing a relationship with Yuu extremely refreshing. Third wheel characters harboring hidden attractions that get laid by the wayside in favour of supporting the main couple are likewise a general romance trope, not something I see as "typically Yuri". Toradora! prominently features arguably more than just one such character. I can't disprove that it might be fair to state that the "senpai-kouhai"-dynamic is more common in Yuri than in het, although "notice me senpai" has been a meme for long enough to indicate against this specificity. It appears more common, though, for the (female) kouhai to be crushing on the (male) senpai in het. As others said, the interpretation of Touko as anything close to predatory is rather ludicrous. Apart from the clear spur-of-the-moment first kiss, pretty much all other (physical) advances come explicitly announced. She is not "aggressive" in a malicious, predatory sense. She shows a lot of initiative and is definitely rather horny, but she never crosses the line. The clearly present sexual component is one of the features that made YagaKimi stand out to me so much. It's clear only a few chapters in that Touko is horny and wants some of that Yuu. That's also why I'd say Touko resting her head on Yuu's lap is already breaking (or maybe twisting) the "head-on-lap" trope mentioned in the article: the sensual connotation is clear, and both characters are aware of it. It is blatantly not "pure", it much rather struck me as "realistic". It's just that Yuu's not having any of that at that point in the story. A big aspect of both the article as well as the greater discussion around YagaKimi has, for a long time, been the question of Asexuality. Maki is the Ace, and while it is true that his depiction is limited by him being only a spectator and "not having his own story", it serves his narrative function perfectly. He often takes on a "wise man" function that could otherwise be filled by a friendly senpai or involved teacher. I would also see him as somewhat of an audience insert character, partly because his explicit role as knowing spectator. Giving more of his own story, while potentially worthwhile, probably just lay outside of Nakatani's scope. The debate about Yuu being an Ace always struck me as silly, though. It should become apparent as early as chapter four, at worst chapter seven (Maki's revelation and insight) that Yuu is likely not ace, but rather experiences romance differently. She doesn't "fall in love" and "have a crush", as she would have expected. Her love is one of choice, a "religious" love, so to speak (the word "religion" is sometimes stated as stemming from "re-eligere", "to choose again/repeatedly"). It's the same kind of love that my own relationship is built on, which has now lasted almost thirteen years (funnily enough, my wife had a crush on me while I more or less went along with it at first). "I don't have a crush, but I'm willing to see where it goes" can become "I'm not giving this person up, they've become important to me" rather quickly. Yuu had trouble acknowledging her feelings as such, since she'd so strongly wanted to fall in love. By the end of the anime it should have been pretty much obvious that Yuu is romantically invested in Touko, and also that she's sexually curious. The allegation that this "inability to fall in love" is "attributed [...] to a character fault" radically clashes with my reading of the volume. I saw no insinuation of a fault, but rather a mere difference in kind that deserves some more spotlight. Some less serious final notes: I wouldn't say Yuu and Touko "sleep together" in the penultimate chapter, as it very much allows for an "S" reading of the sentence. They sleep "with eachother", no two ways about it. It was a triumphant finale indeed. Unfortunately I was let down a bit by the final chapter. Not because of the timeskip. Not because they're still together. I was disappointed because I simply don't see how they're still in the closet. We had hints at how a coming-out might happen when Rei was in the car with Yuu, and Yuu is even still living with her parents at the end. They weren't really described as particularly disinterested in her, so there's just no way they would still be oblivious, while all their friends are "in". Overall thank you for an interesting article to discuss, and the perspectives to be had from it. |
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1361 |
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It took me a while to find time for this article, but it's great to read about how Bloom into you fits into the larger context of yuri manga and anime.
I was a bit surprised by the opening --- I hadn't realized that anyone thought the series was particularly original. What it is (at least eventually), is a very nice romance, exploring several characters and containing quite an emotional punch. I think the anime was a good introduction to the manga, because the anime gives Yuu considerably more agency early on. I found Touko's near-sexual-harassment of her in the manga to be a little much. As someone else pointed out in this thread, had this been a heterosexual couple with Touko the male, I would have found Touko's advances pretty questionable. Yuu becomes her own person earlier in the anime, I think, and that helped get me through the rough spots early-on in the manga. I found Sayaka so interesting that I've read the two volumes of the novel treatment of her that have been released in English and am impatient for the release of the final volume. The novels don't add much to the Bloom into you story line, but they do tell Sayaka's story. YuriMother, is it fair to say that your comments on Yuu's perceived asexuality are mostly a warning to not be disappointed when it turns out she is not? |
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enurtsol
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Well, many yuri (and yaoi) are written by straight people, so there's always a question of "how would they know." So just take it as a straight person's fantasy of what yuri (or yaoi) is like
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YuriMother
Posts: 16 |
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Zormau posts a fantastic response! Really interesting and insightful from another point of view. I want to touch on a few key pieces of it.
You're absolutely right. We LOVE original works, often what I will praise or criticize a work for has to do with how much it conforms, strays from, or actively opposes Yuri tropes. The reasons why vary. However, for me, I have read many, many Yuri stories with the same basic plots, characters, set pieces, etc. It is nice to be taken out of that pattern every once in a while AND, because many of those tropes are routed in misconceptions or harmful stereotypes about queer people, seeing them countered often acts as an affirmation of LGBTQ people and identity. I still like a lot of works with tons of tropes (including Bloom Into You) but I am more likely to criticize these works. But once again, criticism does not mean a work is bad or should not be loved.
You are right to draw parallels between "Yuri" tropes and those of other anime and manga genres. I will not get into the full history here, but we see so many similarities becuase Yuri, unlikly possibily any other genre, moved through and was interprited as literary elements in multiple demographics (shoujo, josei, shouen, seinen). As it became a genre of its own, the various elements it had picked up from those genre's were adopted and we see a mix of them in most current Yuri works. I write about this more here https://www.animefeminist.com/yuri-is-for-everyone-an-analysis-of-yuri-demographics-and-readership/ and Erica Friedman has a fantastic analysis analysis here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHDnv0dY_s4 As for what screams Yuri or not Yuri, you make a good point that these exist in other genres. To me, as a "Yuri critic" (whatever that means) I see them used in this context as Yuri tropes and used in similar if not identical ways of Yuri past. Zormau also gives a fantastic viewpoint on the asexuality aspects and Touko's predatory behavior, however, I have already addressed these in other comments and the article itself. Although again, I love seeing these other opinions!
You're right about the verb there, sleep together may be a bit ambiguous, however, I trust that the reader gets my meaning (ei, they read it and know that they have sex). As for coming out, while a staple in Western LGBTQ literature, we hardly ever see it in Yuri. It links back to the S ideas of homosexuality and its... legitimacy, but it would have been amazing to see a coming out. I will argue that we see something much more akin to coming out in the light novels with Sayaka, although that is more an inward coming out and acceptance than an external announcement. So take that as you will. Thank you again for the amazing reply! |
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Zormau
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@YuriMother
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, and big thanks again for the link to the demographic analysis. I'd already suspected that Yuri would draw in a lot of straight males - it's pure logic (  ) that a romantic story with not just one, but two cute/attractive girls doing romancy things to protecc/fawn over for the price of one is extra tempting. Same is probably true for hot guys in Yaoi and straight female readers. I know my wife and her sister think that way, at least.
The thing about originality is that it becomes more important to you the more you're immersed in and familiar with a genre. The first time you encounter any trope, it's a nice, innocent quirk. It only gets lame if you see it over and over again (exceptions apply: there are usually tropes that will be seen as "dead on arrival" by some readers). I totally get the desire for originality, and to stay invested in a medium you absolutely need to find those gems of originality every now and then. I think it's also important, however, to be able to look beyond that and appreciate the story for what it is, and imagine how it might impact someone who's not seen, for example, the lap-pillow a thousand times before. There is an impressive video-essay by the late John "Totalbiscuit" Bain on Relativism in Video Games Critique (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpmeOB0Zyu0) that actually transfers well to most any literary medium. The gist is basically "know your reviewer, don't take their word as gospel, look at how their perspective compares to yours". Yeah, the continued closeted-ness of Yaoi and Yuri couples irks me, and that aspect is one trope that I wouldn't miss. I get where it comes from, but it's sad that even in the idealized world of Manga and Anime we can't seem to readily cross that bridge. Sure, convincingly conveying the struggles of coming out (which I have absolutely no first- or secondhand experience with, mind you) can't be easy, but considering how spectacular Nakatani's narrative was otherwise, I am sure she would have pulled it off well. |
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enurtsol
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Ah, bisexual is another one that we don't usually see
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