Forum - View topicNEWS: Dentsu to Post Y5 Billion Loss on Geneon's Downsizing
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Wildcat70
 Posts: 9 |
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I just hope I can get the last 2 discs of When They Cry. It's a great series that I didn't mind buying pre disc at Geneon prices.
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belisarius
Posts: 203 Location: Concord, NC |
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Total speculation on my part, but this may also have been a factor : http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=JPY&amt=1&t=3m
The dollar has been on a free fall against most major currencies of late, which means if Dentsu had an initial investment of X Yen in Geneon USA, that investment has now depreciated considerably. If the people working Dentsu's numbers see the dollar weakening further, they might have decided to pull out before things got even worse. Very possibly a contributing factor. |
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DarkTenshi90
 Posts: 440 Location: Nebraska |
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Now is a great time for me to finally purchase those R.O.D. DVDs before they go away. I stopped getting them back in like '05 because other anime were preoccupying my time, now I'm too worried to get anything else. Thank god for Amazon.
It really sucks that Geneon is going away, especially since they were my favorite anime producing company. I wonder what's going to happen to all the stuff they licensed and what not. It sucks to see them go too. |
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eloyabun
 Posts: 55 |
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Question: In the Japanese, or the American tax paying system lost money can be tax deductible? I mean, in my country if a business losses a large amount of money in a fiscal year, they can declare that loss and get a tax refund or a tax deduction in their profits the next year. If that is possible I have reasons to think that Geneon is doing some kind of scam to the fiscal system. Come on, more than 40 million dollars in losses? There are fatal Earthquakes that are WAY cheaper than that… If they aren’t doing a tax scam, for that kind of numbers I’m thinking of the worse… can that be a Money Laundering operation?
And this forum want us to believe that fansubers who don’t make a penny for their work are the lowest kind of criminals… 
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VEGANDARAE
Posts: 57 |
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i believe laundering encompasses the tranfer of money between certain currencies during their peak rates of transitions both high and low. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Down, kiddies. Corporation types eat the rest of us for light snacks any day. There's always a new way to make money & it often involves stomping someone else. How do you make money on the stock market? You buy low(someone else's desperation) & sell high (get out while the getting's good). If your company's having trouble, you hope you can keep it quiet long enough to sell out to some sucker who still thinks everything's going well. In the '80's all the rage was corporate raiders who moved in, gutted the business selling off the profitable parts, then moved on to the next prey. They didn't worry about making the company profitable in the future-they didn't care. So yeah, I've been wondering how much of this is actually Geneon USA & how much is Dentsu. It's not unusual for stuff like this in the business world. Geneon never really seemed to understand the American audience, so maybe they are dumping their foreign operations or just their American operations. Do they have operations in other countries they're dumping? Look at our signals--we've seen a jump in foreclosures which is affecting the loan industry. If we hit a recession which we're about due for we'll see more & more people deciding to cut back on frivolous things which usually includes entertainment & dining out as well as waiting longer to replace things like cars. We're changing presidents in about a year. Things might look uncertain for the next couple years. Those of us who live here know it'll balance out, but look how the stock market's been in the last year. Business types get nervous when things aren't stable. |
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VEGANDARAE
Posts: 57 |
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You really think a recession is capable of this kind of instability? (just wondering) |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Japan is still stuggling to come out of a long recession themselves and because Dentsu is mainly an advertising company, advertising is the first thing that businesses cut back on when the going gets tough. So Dentsu throwing Geneon out of the basket is no surprise here
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irishninja
 Posts: 344 Location: Seattle-ish |
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Yes.
It's not a "scam" if it's a legal loophole. Many industrialized nations have those sorts of loopholes to allow big companies that are on the rocks to survive temporary hard times. It's in the best interest of the taxing state to cut a tax-paying company a break so it can stay in business. Long term over short term and all that. If you want to be cynical and negative about it, though, yes those laws are designed to allow the wealthy to hold on to their money. It's the real-world golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules.
Why does this surprise you? The Big Three automakers and several of America's major airlines lose BILLIONS of dollars from time to time. It's not called big business for nothing.
You should familiarize yourself with the specifics of those terms. It's not a scam and it's not money laundering. It's loss of profit. Oh sure, they'll get a tax write-off, but I guarantee you the company's shareholders would rather have a profit than a tax write-off. (That assumes Dentsu and Geneon are public companies. If not, my argument loses a little punch.)
That is such a laughable comparison it makes me laugh. Ha ha. You're comparing a company that has done something perfectly legal with a group that has not. Fansubbers aren't the lowest kind of criminal, but their actions have no legal justification (and is in fact, illegal). Taking a tax write-off is not illegal. You might not like it, and it might not be completely fair, but the law doesn't care what any of us like. The law only cares about what is legal and what is illegal. |
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luisedgarf
Posts: 657 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico |
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AFIK, Geneon doesn't had any offices outside the U.S and Japan, but that company sub-licensed many series for various networks, especially in Latin America (Animax broadcasted many Geneon-licensed series like Vandread) althrough I don't if the current situation will affect many series that or were broadcasted in Latin America or other countries. |
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erilot
Posts: 25 Location: INDIANA |
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I am in accounting and know at least in the US, when a company, whether public or private, corporation or flow thru, somebody will get a refund of their taxes. It is a short term gain to help the company out so they hopefully turn around. I have seen companies be able to turn around and make profits, or those that will eventually fold. I don't know anything about Japan's tax system since my firm has people that specialize in international tax. I am just having a tough time with this because I remember seeing at Anime Expo a beautiful display out of Hellsing and I went to the Geneon panels. There seemed no hint of problems to come. Losses just don't creep up on you and I can't believe that back in July, they did not see this coming. Not a company this size who probably looks each month at their profits/losses. Like everybody else, I am upset that they continued to license series with the possiblity of going under. Luckily I have many of them in fansub format, but I really wanted the DVD's to add to my collection.
We just need to sit back and keep reading on what happens. Maybe Geneon will be ablt to continue releasing DVD's or somebody else will pick up the series and finish them. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16935 |
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From the looks of things they aren't actually going under completely. From the looks of things maybe they won't do much for a year or two then progressively make their way back up to their former status. Of course with better choices in terms of running the business to avoid this happening again.
While this has nothing to do with anime one example in America of this is Kmart. Just a little while ago they're declaring bankruptcy. Now they've bought Sears. I'm just using this as an example. Perhaps Geneon simply will law low for a bit and then come back and do things better and make it work in the future. |
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VEGANDARAE
Posts: 57 |
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It's good to see people like you here, much like myself. If i watch a series i want, i will have the fansubs but i make it a point to own the dvds too, and so far i have lived up to that obligation. Here's to Geneon's glorious rebirth! Let it be the best of our expectations! |
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bglassbrook
 Posts: 1243 Location: Gaithersburg, MD |
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My first thought on seeing those numbers was wondering what the (at least relative) breakdown was between operational expenditures to wrap-up operations, reserves for future claims, and write-offs for capitalized expenses of a terminated business segment. PS -- I suspect Dentsu is a traded company, or else we would never hear of this sort of thing as it would not require disclosure to the public. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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luisedgarf-
Thanks. I've been wondering. Foreign offices are a big expense so if the US office was their only outside operation, it makes perfect sense to cut it, They were already looking at that huge loss for buying out Mitsubishi's shares so from an accounting outlook, it might be smarter to dump it all now. Looking at how Geneon USA was actively starting new licenses, this does seem more like a sudden decision that was sprung on them. If thet expected this, I'd think they would have allowed their licenses to finish & not pick up as many as they were puting out in the last year--Saiyuki ended in March or so--I really figured I'd have a break & then they announced Shonen Onmyoji which I spied in Newtype USA maybe a year earlier & Saiunkoku which I knew because it has several of my fav VA's in--meaning 2 gal titles to replace one unless they were just kicking Saiunkoku in before Kyo Kara Maoh finished. They weren't acting like a company in any more trouble than any other anime company.
I just know personal experience. The last recession was tough. We've had interest rates insanely low & looser lending has already led to higher foreclosures & lenders in trouble. We had the whole Savings & Loan debaucle in the '80's. If Lender A had so many high-Risk loans it puts them under, the ripple stretches out. Other lenders are obviously tightening their standards so the bottom--the high risk borrowers-aren't going to be able to get those loans for another car so they can get to work so now XXX people have or resort to public transit/walking/bumming a rife off friends. I'm also seeing the auto companies aren't doing the business they hoped for. Tightening also means marginal types being unable to get a loan, so demand for new single-family homes go down, thus construction jobs go down. I work with convicted felong-people who maybe had a great work history before being convicted but now they're convicted felons, they get "Sorry, Target won't hire you" So they lie & don't put down they're convicted felons & maybe get to work a week or 2 until the background check reveals the felony & their new boss at Home Depot, & a lot of other places let them go. Construction is a lot of under-the-table day labor my clients survive on. If the economy goes south & construction jobs go away, the bottom layer-the convicted felons trying to rebuild, or the other side of clients I have-the ones who never had a good work history in the first place--crashed with friends, sponged off folks, drug users who maybe traded sex for drugs & shelter for a night or 2 trying to make a go of it maybe can't get work so now they're bumming on street corners or filling up soup kitchens. A depression? No. However recession tightens all the markets. You wear that pair of shoes a bit longer. You cut back on going to movies in a theater & maybe rent a dvd. You fix your car a few more times rather than trade it in for another. You eat out less often All this means less money moving from you into those businesses, so they cut back. Maybe lay someone off. Now that person who's been laid off due to the poor economy is looking for work & looks a hell of a lot better than my convicted felon who maybe was ordered by the court to pay back the $100-$1,000,000 dollors s/he stole, but they can't even put a roof over their head so you aren't going to get back that court ordered restitution so now money is tight, you've lost a &50,000 vehicle my defendantr stole & trashed-sold for drugs, whatever, but you can't afford to replace it.... So yeah. We actually need recessions to re-adjust the economy, but it's hard on everyone. Foreign investors like the money they can make in good times, but when times get tough, it's natural to pull in, play it close. Better to invest in what they know, maybe closer to home, so they get out of foreign markets or at list things they aren't familliar with(no investing on a whim/tip). Yes America is pretty stable, but we are facing some changes in the next few years. Look at the whole .com stuff at the start of this century--on top one year, gone the next. Our healthcare system has to give really & truely, but I think it'll be only after a few states run some successful models just as some states raised minumum wage to much higher than the federal minimum wage before the feds decided to raise it somewhat. That also would affect investing in the medical field |
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