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Forum - View topicGun Sword.
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BrothersElric
 Posts: 1996 |
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Well from the sound of things, this series is probably one right down my alley. It's been on my want to see list ever since I found out what it was, but with so many on that list, it's kind of hard. It's definitely one of my higher priority series though. It got a little lower on that list when I read the review, but now after reading this thread this really does look like a very good series, one I'll definitely love I'm sure.
I'll probably want to skip this episode 17 though from what you guys are saying about it, knowing me. 
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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I have this entire series on DVD but I disliked this series a fair bit. I only started buying this series when volume 4 with Priscilla on the cover came out. After that, I got the most of the rest when they were $7 at Suncoast. The final volumes 6-7 with a reduced number of episodes came out afterwards though so it was half a year before I got them, the next time a big sale came by.
But I concur with Westlo and people...it puzzles me why this series is not more popular considering how much of a smash hit Code Geass seems to be. Gun x Sword is largely made by the same crew. Namely character designer Takahiro Kimura (whose drawings I really like), director Goro Taniguchi (who is not the worst director but I dislike him), music composer Kotaro Nakagawa, motion-animator Masahiro Yamane, etc. They all travel around together and make the same shows. Some of their shows are by Sunrise though and some are by AIC ASTA, but they always end up with the same look, sound, and feel. Godannar was the exception as they used a better director and music composer, and IMO that's the true masterpiece that Takahiro Kimura's group made (Goro Taniguchi was assigned storyboard gruntwork for Godannar). I haven't seen Code Geass yet though. I do expect it will be better than Gun x Sword. S-cry-Ed was better than Gun x Sword. But either way, I can't see Code Geass being that much better since it's the same people making it.
I agree that the art is high quality but I disagree on the animation quality. It's average quality for anime, below average for an action series. Compare the fluidity and precision of the animation movements to Godannar or S-cry-Ed and see how Gun x Sword should have been, if they weren't so cheap. As for music, it's all up to personal taste. I'm not that fond of this music but it's not the worst. It's the exact same music as S-cry-Ed and Code Geass though, two other shows which get way more respect than Gun x Sword for unknown reasons. I totally disagree on your comments about Michelle Ruff's Carmen though. The dub for Gun x Sword is AWESOME. Everyone is awesome. Even Stephanie Sheh's Wendy...and Stephanie Sheh is usually awful at the little girl voice (which she unfortunately does so often). Maybe it's because of what Zalis mentioned, I didn't know that a different dub studio (not Bang Zoom even though they use the same voice actors) did this show. Bang Zoom dubbing is kind iffy usually even though they have tons of great VAs. I think the ADR directing is always bad at Bang Zoom that's why. -_-; Anyway, I thought Michelle Ruff as Carmen was one of her best roles ever. I agree that her voice can sound pretentious and cocky at times, but I think she's good at that and I actually like it. Anyway there's no other VA that is similar to her in that regards so it's interesting.  I also thought her voice fit the role well, even though it may have been dissimilar to what Inoue Kikuko did.
I don't think Michelle Ruff's voice is phony or artificial, though. In her interviews she sounds the same (just like you commented for Inoue Kikuko). She sounded cocky, lol. Maybe she is cocky in real life, I probably wouldn't want to ever talk to her, but she can make a good anime character.
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6872 Location: Kazune City |
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Bang Zoom and NGP are both LA-area studios, which explains the VA overlap. I'm not sure what they do differently, but I like NGP dubs better on average. The only not-so-good NGP project that I've seen is Angel Tales, and most of the fault lies with the source material on that show. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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Code Geass gets off to a much better start than GunXSword does which probably made a lot of difference in addition to the Sunrise and CLAMP brands. Geass is just a lot of fun and the lead character isn't cookie cutter which is nice, it's pretty much in the same category as Scryed as opposed to Ryvuis/Planet ES. Guess I have to check out this Godannar series too since it's from the same crew. And yeah I love Takahiro Kimura work, those Geass girls clearly show his touch even if CLAMP came up with the original designs, the drawings for the first ending of Geass are just awesome. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Even if most anime watchers don't pay attention to directors and staff details, I still think that such factors might influence some people indirectly, because they do reflect on how the show turns out. Years back, I never used to pay attention to staff details myself and didn't even know what a director was. But now that I pay attention to such things and look back on all the shows I liked from before, I always consistently liked shows with certain directors and staff. And many shows that I hated or had mixed feelings about, and I didn't used to know why, now I understand.
I agree that the Sunrise and CLAMP recognition probably helps out Code Geass. I only wonder how much of that is deserved and how much of it is hype. I guess I won't know for sure until I see Code Geass for myself. I hope Code Geass is as awesome as everyone is hyping it to be, because I want another Godannar, but I have little hope that will really be the case (judging by the credits, I'm guessing that at best it will only be a little better than S-cry-Ed), but who knows. I guess I shouldn't complain though. I forgot that Takahiro Kimura's group used to go with director Yoshitomo Yonetani (who is AWFUL, among the worst ever) for stuff like GGG and Betterman. Goro Taniguchi is way better than Yoshitomo Yonetani. To me, the history of Takahiro Kimura's group seems plagued with bad directors (YY and Tsukasa Sunaga) and failed animes. I noticed that his group finally seemed to be encountering success when Goro Taniguchi joined. But I still think TK is not as successful as he should be. He still has problems with finding good directors. And he usually makes the same kind of show, girls and guys piloting robots. Maybe he is addicted to that genre or something.
I wonder how much design work CLAMP (in whatever incarnation it exists in these days) actually did for Code Geass. I'm not convinced they came up with all the original designs. To me the guys look like CLAMP-influenced designs (TK guys wearing CLAMP clothes). But some of the girls look like 100% TK girls from what I've seen, especially the one with the reddish hair. |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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Yeah myself and quite a few other Takahiro fans have thought along those lines. As for Geass living up to the hype... well I admit that if you went into watching it with the intent of tearing it apart you could easily do that, but it's just one of the most enjoyable series to watch in a long time. I just hope the second season gets a much bigger animation budget and looks as good as Idolmaster and Gundam 00 since there is a lot of panning in Code Geass.. yet they really do step up the animation for the mecha fight scenes, ep 11 fight scene between the two "main" mechs is short but sweet. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4449 |
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I enjoyed the series because it's just fun. I'd definitely agree that it's derivative, but that's half of what makes it fun.
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Tony, I blame you and this thread for giving this series a second chance
I bought the first DVD when it was released and was so underwhelmed that I actually stopped collecting it. I think I had just recently finished the rather weak Grenadier which sadly enough for some reason reminded me of Gun Sword. Since TRSI is doing a 30% off sale on most titles (BVUSA of course is excluded) I'm using it as an excuse to get those final Geneon titles, since I don't think they will have another Geneon studio sale at this point. I decided to get the other 6 Gun Sword volumes as well as completing Kanazuki no Miko which I also dropped after the first DVD. It is worth noting that Gun Sword I believe is still being released in the UK by MVM but at £19.99 a volume the current TRSI with free shipping offer is much cheaper. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11305 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Heh, glad to hear that. I don't know if it's just my weird taste in anime or some kind of knack for pointing out a lot of things I like within a given series, but I honestly feel this one needed a little extra exposure since the first review (here, anyway) was so negative. I'm just surprised there are more fans of this title than I thought. |
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RevyHenriettaRider
 Posts: 89 |
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Hello!
I just wanted to comment on the notion that a story about someone getting revenge is timeless story plot. If we are really in a world where that kind of story should not be then why is a movie like Kill Bill so popular. I can see the parallel between the Bride and Van. They both want to kill the person who destroyed their wedding days. I have not seen the anime of the Count of Monte Cristo but I know that that is a story of revenge which is a classic and has been read in school. Now if the anime of the Count follows the about same path as the novel then the Count is out to get the people who wronged him too. Another anime that is very strong and has been praised by many that has at it's core the idea of revenge is Le Chevalier D'Eon. It is a rich tale that has characters that have been drawn from history which of course makes it possibly a stronger story but there are many parallels to Gun X Sword in that story too. Now does Gun X Sword try to make the point that revenge is not a good thing. It does through a few characters like Ray's brother Joshua and Wendy who cares for Van. These characters are trying to get Ray and Van to want to live for more than just to get their revenge. Gun X Sword is not a depressing strory because the main character is not depressed. Van is angry and determined to fight back. Anger may not be the most noble of emotions but it is an understandable one. Human beings may want and strive to rise above anger but it is not something that can be done all the time. Now as to having cliche characters I don't see that with Gun X Sword. I mean how often do you find in a story the aging mech riders like the El Dorado Five. It is always the young Voltron types that get to have the special mechs. Another different character is Fasalina who fights in a very seductive way. So I would say that Gun X Sword has a few very different characters. As to Cowboy Bebop did not Spike want to get a type of revenge against Vicious. If the ending of Cowboy Bebop is classic does it not also fall into the same catagory as Gun X Sword. Now to be honest I prefer the end of Gun X Sword to Cowboy Bebop. Anyway I hope that more people will give Gun X Sword a chance. It is it's own unique story with a diverse group of characters. |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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I really don't get why since the days of it's fan subs to its DVD release Gun X Sword got tagged with the cliche and generic tags. There's a massive amount of anime titles (and a lot of them very popular) that are just as generic but I've never seen them criticized for it as much as Gun X Sword has been.
You know to see someone say they didn't like this because it's generic and than see them say in the currently watching thread how much they're enjoying.... well let's use Shana II as an example (considering how much its been sucking balls probably a bad example) just makes me put my hand on my forehead and sigh. These are probably the same people who wouldn't even consider watching something like Mononoke. Is Gun X Sword generic? Yes but so is the majority of anime released these days so why single out Gun X Sword? |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I'll make no comment about whether or not I personally find Gun x Sword to be cliche or generic. However, I did say that I was not that impressed by this show overall. In general the story, directing, music, and animation quality do not impress me (only the drawing quality and style impress me).
However when other people give negative reviews of a show that deserves it, in my opinion it can often be the case that these reviewers don't really know what they dislike about the show. They only know that they dislike it. As Zalis said before, most people don't pay attention to credits and may not even know what a director is (and how he impacts the way the final show turns out). Yet, I think these issues still influence most viewers' enjoyment of a show to some extent, it is just that they don't realize why they feel the way they do. Most reviewers focus on story when reviewing a show (something I personally almost completely ignore). To some extent this is probably because most people care more about the story than anything else, but it's also because this is the only thing the average person knows how to discuss. If Gun x Sword is simply a bad or mediocre show (which I think it is), then I'd expect people to label the show as "cliche" or "generic" even if the show doesn't deserve those labels. It's just people trying to find an excuse, or a way to criticize a show, that they disliked but didn't really know why. But again, the thing that surprises me is that most people apparently didn't think too highly of Gun x Sword, yet Code Geass is all the rage (even though I think it would be mostly the same). Maybe Code Geass has a far better story than Gun Sword, that may be where CLAMP influence helped out. BTW, I probably wouldn't even consider watching something like Mononoke either. I'm probably one of those Shana watchers, I just like nice visuals. But, I would think that this group of people would like Gun Sword....because Gun Sword also has nice visuals. And the main character is a runty cute little girl, just like Shana. Perhaps Carmen is distasteful to this crowd. If Priscilla and Wendy were the main characters of Gun Sword and there were no Carmen or Van, Gun Sword would probably be all the rage with the eye-candy crowd. Maybe the cute girl eye-candy-loving crowd doesn't like "cowboy shows". I hate cowboy shows too. I only watched Gun Sword because I acknowledged that regardless of the ugly cowboyness, the series had terrific Takahiro Kimura drawings. |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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Well thanks to CLAMP the fan girls are drawn in and thanks to the fluid mecha action and hot Kimura girls so are the guys. Not to mention the lead Lelouch is kinda unique for an anime with only really Light Yagami from Death Note being similar to him. Goro set out to make a hit show (this was going to be in the Dokuru time slot after all at first and it looks like part 2 will be in that slot) and he definitely succeeded in doing that. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11305 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I usually like to tie production staff into my opinions as well (depending on familiarity of the companies). But your statement is a lot like what we talked about in the Literary Criticism class I took this semester. As readers, we've always got expectations for whatever novel we read. Of course, comparing film to literature is very different since one has visuals while the other needs to have the visuals imagined, but the concepts of critiquing still carry over. In novels, we're pretty much left with the story itself and the langauge, word usage, sentence structure, etc. In film (namely anime for this case) we have story, music, art, animation, and voice acting/script, which, in my opinion, have a great power to appeal to our visual and auditory senses. But what I've seen my professor do a lot of is "test" (more like thoroughly interrogate) you on why you think or feel a certain way about the novel's writing, characters, or execution. I take that aspect of teaching to be very similar to Rule #3 of the forums where people are required to be as detailed as possible. Interestingly enough to your reference on how people like to talk about story, it was very much the same way for a lot of my classmates. They talked a lot about the characters and how stylistic elements in the writing paced their reading and overall experience. My professor read us a critique he had blogged about a year ago for a novel that we read this term, and it was.. overwhelmingly articulate. He broke down underlying themes by quoting text, breaking them down with literary terminology, then using a combination of his overall experience with past literature to give a very poignant commentary on the novel itself. If we have an opinion, we should explain it and tell everyone why, and in detail. Certainly, we're all probably not as familiar with technical terms or past works of production staff, and it's OK if we aren't. At least there's something to talk about, rather than just giving unsupported statements like "I don't like this character" or "the way she's written is awful." I'm not trying to endorse we all be as educated and well-informed as my professor, but I thought it would be a nice point to bring up for all of us. Last edited by Tony K. on Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I'm rewatching Gun x Sword right now all the way through from the beginning (3rd time through, not counting rewinding and watching the Priscilla parts over and over again). I hadn't watched in a really long time and can't even remember how it ends anymore.
The animation quality is significantly WORSE than what I remembered, and I had already remembered it to be very bad. In general, when you rewatch something you will be better at noticing exceptionally bad or good animation quality. The animation quality (this is not the same as drawing quality or consistency) is REALLY cheap. It's Gonzo-level cheap, which is pretty much on par with the worst ever for all genre of anime. Or for another analogy, it's Pokemon Emerald/Diamond cheap (the previous Pokemon seasons all had significantly better animation quality). Definitely not sufficient for an action-based series. What is worse is that it is cheap due to lack of funds or effort, not due to a lack of skill or taste in the animators...which creates an even more unbalanced effect. The animators of Gun x Sword are the same as Godannar, which in my opinion is among the top 3 TV series of all-time (that I've seen) for animation quality. Masahiro Yamane and Takahiro Kimura are master animators. They generally produce animations of both high frame-rate and tasteful and skilled mechanics/choreography. However, the budget for Gun x Sword was most likely ludicrously cheap and low...so what you see are stationary and scrolling images most of the time, and horribly insufficient frame-rates when things do move. One comparison would be the trademark spinning movement of Van's mech vs Kazuma's spinning movement in S-cry-Ed. They are the exact same movement and technique. It is like they learned from the same martial arts master (Masahiro Yamane) who taught them how to spin and who taught them these moves. However, in S-cry-Ed which is animated by Sunrise...Kazuma's spinning movements are fluid and dynamic. In Gun x Sword, the spinning movement is ultra choppy and has about 1/3rd of the frames or less of the S-cry-Ed version. And most of the time Van is too "lazy" to even spin. And in general when watching Gun x Sword one can get the feeling that the animators are being lazy whenever possible, scrolling whenever possible...as opposed to creating a show naturally and drawing the necessary frames to show things. Shows like Strawberry Marshmallow have high animation quality (they have about 3x the frames of Gun x Sword) even though they are just about little girls doing nothing. Because the little girls move when they are supposed to move, even if it is just to walk down some stairs or scratch their head or pick up a piece of candy. Things don't move when they are supposed to move in Gun x Sword...people stand like statues, or you see randomly see shots of the mountains or the sky...it's the same feeling I get when I watch the typical Gonzo-produced show. Things also tend to cycle more than normal...for example with walking motions or Wendy's turtle lying on his back. I wish that there were some sort of magical way to process an anime and come up with a "total frames" counter to see how cheap or well-made the animation quality for a show is. Of course, frame-rate isn't everything. Like I said earlier, proper motion mechanics and choreography is just as important. But frame-rate matters too. Gun x Sword gets an F for frame-rate despite (in theory) having good motion mechanics and choreography. This might tend to apply more to the first half of the series though. After Priscilla appears the animations for Gun x Sword get a bit better...but it's mostly for specific scenes that were probably drawn by Takahiro Kimura himself. I'm guessing he likes Priscilla the most in this show. There are a lot of Priscilla moving-around scenes that are drawn in ultra high quality. Like when she is bouncing around in her mech or crawling in the shower. |
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