Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV Films Removes Titles from Website
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Indefinite hiatus reminds me more of ADV's manga. Which gives me at least some hope, since they did get some of the better selling titles out there again.
And if it's more a problem with this other company than hopefully it can be sorted out and things can move ahead as planned. |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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Lol I feel exactly the same way. At first, I might have agreed that people were overreacting as the news about Geneon was just starting to trickle out. But that time has long passed, the worst-case scenario with them turned out to be true, and new doomsday scenarios are now lurking around the corner. Right now I think most people are UNDERreacting. Even if we are all ranting and panicking and going wild, and even if what we fear ends up untrue, we are still underreacting. At the same time I agree with what Keonyn said regarding how this type of business economics works. So I agree with both of you, if that's even possible. It's unfortunate that things are this way but that's the way they are. So what's the solution? Some people would like to say that we consumers should behave differently to stop the chain-reacting-crash and remove the "unfortunate situation". But I'm not so sure that's the best solution. I think we should just continue behaving wildly and unfortunately, this way we force the businesses to shape up and do what they have to do to fix things. I don't think the situation is unfixable, even as unfortunate as it is. And even if our behavior were to force ADVision bankrupt, and then ALL the anime licensing companies bankrupt, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. We might have no anime for 5 years but eventually someone would have to figure out new strategies to deal with our "bad" behavior and we'll get lots of anime again, probably more than ever before. So I say we all be as bad ("grumbly" customers who demand finished series, self-serving fans who pirate freely according to their own "individual" moral code) as possible to whip the businesses into shape. |
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angieness
Posts: 162 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Stop taking my money and running with it anime companies! I reserved Gurren Lagann months ago and was eagerly awaiting the DVD. I even ended my ADV singles boycott(not buying singles, just waiting for boxes) for Red Garden, Welcome to the NHK, and Gurren Lagann since I didn't care how much those series would cost me in the end since I felt they were worth the money. I'm normally very anti fansubs but geez, Funimation is the only company not screwing me over these days. This just seems like a very poor business move to put Gurren Lagann and Devil May Cry, 2 series that have been hyped up to no end in magazines, on hiatus. Not that I was interested at all in Devil May Cry, but it's a shock to see 2 possible big money makers going down the tubes.
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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To further positive waves, of 2006/2007 licenses the followin weren't on the list [along with assorted pre-Sojitz 2005 licneses that have yet to have thinpacks like Hakugei and Nanaka 6/17] UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie OVA Area 88 OVA This Ugly Yet Beautiful World UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie Season 2 Shin Angyo Onshi And their currrently only two unsolicted licenses- Sgt. Frog Kyoshiro to Towa no Sora Which means ADV likely still has a number of shows to release/release, as they've apparently also been making some licenses independent from Sojitz [unless ICV2 simply omitted these] |
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Heretic
Posts: 177 Location: Laurel, Maryland |
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If this is true, it means I've been screwed twice in less than a year's time. I've wasted a lot of my money to buy stuff from both Geneon and ADV, and if this happens I'll exit the market along with them. I took the Geneon thing on the chin, but I absolutely refuse to put anymore of my money into an industry that looks like it will go belly-up in a couple of years, and then be left with 20 series that will never be finished. I had to get that out, or else I would have taken it out on a bookcase or glass cabinet in my house.
Maybe I'll take up fishing or something. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I did say that I would buy something like Gurren-Lagann after it finishes coming out. That's what Keonyn was talking about I think. And indeed I would certainly do that. The danger though is that if everyone is like me, then ADVision will make absolutely no money for an entire year as they are releasing Gurren-Lagann. Furthermore, they'll stop releasing it after Vol. 1 because they saw that no one bought Vol. 1 because everyone was too afraid and is waiting for the series to finish first (or a boxset to come out). So, it's a very unfortunate and very dangerous situation, mostly caused by Geneon, but it affects everyone just like I had said long ago. Heretic, yeah you are awesome. You said exactly the things I think everyone should be saying. Everyone should be like you or worse. I still think that we are all underreacting. What companies like Geneon and perhaps ADVision are soon to be doing should be illegal. It should be legal to pull out of a market and close up operations gracefully (complete your current series). But it should be illegal to die suddenly and abandon your current projects. There should be a mandatory federal law forcing companies to refund all their customers in such a scenario. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Yes, it would be a bad thing. Like it or not the anime industry is fairly dependent on the money coming in from overseas at this point. They've had it for this long, it's foolish to think all those licensers going bankrupt wouldn't hit the industry in Japan itself hard. While it's remotely possible that your theory would work, it's more likely that the market would crash to a point it'd take a lot longer than 5 years and the industry itself would be restructured; likely to incorporate more Korean outsourcing to keep releases steady. History demonstrates that you can't just strike against an industry an expect it to survive intact to reform. Also, if this is going to turn in to some thread to promote theft then we might as well lock it now. This is a discussion about this event, not some rally to perform some economic terroristic attack against a bleeding industry. I also fail to see how saying we should all support the problem and blame the companies solves anything. The companies make a great scapegoat, but honestly the companies aren't to blame. You think they want to go under or have economic problems? People lose their jobs over this crap and your best response is to say, "Hey, let's all do what's causing the problem and blame the victims". People might be underreacting, but it seems that the underreaction is a result of pointing the fingers in the wrong direction, not due to downplaying the issue at hand. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Given ADV was still licensing anime regularly before their deal with Sojitz [which seemd to be made so they could have an increased number of licenses], I imagine it's likely they can renegociate licenses for several of the series, whether it's ones they were involved with production on [wasn't Guyver a coproduction?] or one that is from a longtime business partner with an active interest in a healthy ADV [Hey Gainax! FYI- during ADV's 2005 licensing dryspell, they did license the also-not-on-the-list This Ugly Yet Beautiful World]. It might take a little finangling, but I imagine they'll pull some licenses out of hiatus [which is announced as the intention in the pulled press release]. The fact that it was pulled means it's likely there's a lot more to this we haven't seen yet. And seriously people, it's time to be FANS. What Porcupine is saying isn't what being a fan is about. That's just greedy, selfish, and disgusting to see..... if you love anime, give something back every once in awhile, or there won't be ant anime to love. |
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Dr Grant Swinger
 Posts: 41 |
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Go to Google and enter "ADV Sojitz IcV2 ". Look for the title that says "ADV Cancels 37 Titles". Last edited by Dr Grant Swinger on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Ojamajo LimePie
 Posts: 766 |
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*Cues 'Aozora' in Winamp*
"Ano umi, doko made mo..." 
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I should revise what I said earlier slightly. Yes, it would certainly be a bad thing if all domestic North American anime were driven out of existence. But what I mean to say is that maybe we can still find some good in that. Because maybe in 5 years, or if not 5 years then 10 years, eventually someone would fix the problem. And there is a problem, I think most people would agree on that. Sometimes people are too lazy to do maintenance on, or repair something, until it completely breaks. It's often not until something is broke that people realize that something needs to be done. I'm not sure what you mean about that comment about "History demonstrates". I see many real-life analogies where sometimes the only way, or best way, to fix something is to destroy it first then start anew. Of course not everything is that way, just certain things. If you think the companies are not to blame, then who is? People cannot be expected to govern and regulate themselves. That is why there are governments, and police. The key players in this game of economics who have the power to effect change are the anime companies, and the federal governments. But neither is really doing what's necessary at the moment. So the industry deserves to go down, which sucks, but hopefully if that really happens, someone (governments and/or companies) will realize that something is broken and fix it. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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There is a problem, but who's to say the problem is the companies? Perhaps it's unreasonable expectations with a large number of consumers that is the problem. Or perhaps even it's just that people are unwilling to recognize a problem because the free anime it offers them is a convenience. Almost sounds political, ignoring information and passing the blame the moment that information becomes an inconvenience for the individual/entity. It's a pretty weak argument to immediately lay the blame on the company, or any entity. I'm going to go torch your house because I can't get in and do as I please within it. You should have been more responsible in making a flame resistant home, I can't be expected to regulate myself now can I? I should be able to do whatever I want and expect whatever I want, as the homeowner it is your responsibility to ensure your house meets my needs, since it doesn't I'm going to just torch it to make it better. Right?
The industry deserves to go down because people are apathetic and greedy? That's like saying someone murdered in a drive-by deserved it because they went to that site that day. It's not the governments responsibility to regulate industry, that method of regulation has proven ineffective in other societies and doing so would stir up a hornets nest from people who frankly don't want the government regulating anything. It's also not the industries responsibility to ensure that you are a responsible person. As I said, and I won't say it again, they may realize after a great fall that there is a problem and adjust. The damage will be done though, and it's unlikely that the anime that rises from the ashes will resemble the product you get today. If they have to cut costs then even when the industry heals those treds will continue in all likelihood. You'll be left with a lower quality product, likely outsourced to cheap foreign studios. Pardon me if I don't want to see people lose their jobs and an industry suffer simply because consumers greedily and unfairly demand more and more for less and less. I strongly suggest you study history and economics before you assume such insanely rash ideas will result in anything beneficial. Statistically, industry collapses are the result of consumer/private action. Even the depression could have been better had consumers and traders reacted more effectively. Now, I'm trying hard to keep this line of discussion from entering fansub territory, but it's getting a tad too close. We now have two such threads already in play and this one will be locked before that number goes to three. |
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Heretic
Posts: 177 Location: Laurel, Maryland |
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I've given quite a bit to say the least. It is not that I regret it, but that I feel that I really will regret it should I continue to spend my money if that means that companies are going to continue to put series on "indefinite hiatus". I was pretty optimistic through the whole Geneon ordeal, and that got me nothing but a hard let down and six series that may or may not ever finish release. I know I am being pretty negative, and I do apologize for venting my frustrations here, but I do intend to keep it civil. I will not say anymore on the matter until ADV officially clears the situation for us. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Just as a note, I know a lot of people are upset when it looks like you've started a collection that may not be finished, or a show you were looking forward to may not come out. Let's keep something in mind though, ADV isn't your friend who kept a secret from you and now owes you some splainin', it's a company. A big hit means more pain then not finishing a collection to them, it means people losing their paychecks and healthcare, it means scary times for a lot of people who've worked hard to keep the company healthy. The last thing ADV would want to do is not have new series for fans, and if it's a situation where that's the reality, it's because they've taken a blow that's left them no choice, not because they get a kick out of yanking your crank. When you go to complain about the disc of 'Red Garden' that didn't get released, think about the ADV employee who may suddenly be wondering how the bills are going to get paid. Keep your inconvenience in perspective, and don't take it personally.
And before we all spit in the eye of th R1 industry, let's think about the hurdles these companies face: -Dealing with notoriously difficult/arrogant Japanese companies with little regard for forward aimed co-operation. Licensing messes from the byzantine nightmare of the Japanese entertainment industry. -An extraordinarily fussy, high-maintenance teen fanbase with the option of watching the product for free if they choose, and that has limited buying means to begin with. -Massive logistical costs in dubbing, licensing, forecasting the domestic interest in very eccentric foreign entertainment, etc. -An already niche entertainment product which has largely moved away from the comedy/hard action/T&A themes and fantasy/sci-fi genres of the 90's (which appealed to pre-existing domestic tastes), and into a much more market/audience fuzzy territory of soap/melodramatic material. It gives me a headache thinking about it, and I'm sure people with experience in the industry could put up a laundry list of others. While one could certainly think of various decision's that could have been made better, R1 companies aren't dropping the ball on some 'can't miss' golden goose, there trying to stay afloat in an extraordinarily difficult and complex niche market. |
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calawain
Posts: 192 Location: New York, NY |
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There's nothing wrong with blaming companies for going out of business. Failed business models, economic changes, whatever the reason companies go away in any industry it's because they failed to adapt. That's how capitalism works now, the way it has worked in the past, and the way it will work in the future. Blaming consumers just doesn't make sense in our economic system. It is the nature of the consumer in a capitalist society to demand more for less, that is one of the fundamental underpinnings of capitalism. It drives innovation and competition, without it we would be stuck before the industrial revolution. My last point that actually government regulation occurs in just about every industry, so saying "It's not the governments responsibility to regulate industry" is fairly incorrect. It varies significantly from industry to industry, but the government regulates many many things. It may not be totally related to the specific product, but for example every company out there is regulated by OSHA. Now that's not to say that I am recommending the government step in and bail out the anime industry, just pointing out that you may want to be careful with blanket statements like that. |
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