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Yeah, definitely take it with a grain of salt because there's at least a couple of perplexities, as shown below:

v1cious wrote:

some guy who claims to work for Cartoon Network has been posting surprisingly accurate information on 4chan the last couple weeks. here's what supposedly happened:

Quote:

It boils down to a combination of low ratings and complaints. 1st off the president told us that CN had been receiving complaints from parents and AS fans for a while about Shin-chan and Code Geass. Shin-chan because of all its foul language and sexual harassments coming from a Kindergartner, and Code Geass for its occasional full frontal nudity (even though we do censor it). Because of these reasons, parents were preventing their children from watching them and fans were turning the channel; causing them both to lose ratings. Shin-chan took the hardest hit. After the 1st couple of weeks after it premiered the ratings for it just kept dropping until it was barely getting over 100,000 viewers.

AS does not care for or even measure ratings below age 18. They do not care if children do not watch. They are not selling non-adults to their advertisers. (Remember, in the industry, the product is not the show - the product is the audience, whom the networks sell to advertisers.)

v1cious wrote:

Quote:

The decision finally came last Wednesday to cut Shin-chan, Code Geass, and Guardian of the Spirit from AS and replace them with other shows. Since no one here at AS liked Shin-chan all that much it was immediately cut and replaced with FMA.

In the first place, Funimation only picked up Shin-chan because AS backed it.** If nobody "at AS" liked it, then that means it's the AS bosses that liked Shin-chan. Now, those same bosses are changing their minds?

[** DVDTalk: "Shin Chan" has an unusual credit on it for "punch-up" writers.
What would you categorize their role as?

Hedges: Well, are you talking about Sarah Dyer and Evan Dworkin?
Well that was for the first episodes one through six, and episode eight.
At the beginning of the process, this was the first time Funimation had
ever tackled this kind of show, basically, a Japanese animated sitcom,
and so the dubbing process was completely different. It was also
different, because [adult swim] was actually kind of involved, in trying
to go out and acquire this from Japan with Funimation. [adult swim]
told Funimation from the beginning that they were interested in it,
so that first trial run, where no one was sure exactly how the show was
going to be, and the direction we were going to take, we had Sarah and
Evan, who were the punch-up writers, so that we would write the scripts,
write two or three drafts between ourselves, and then our team would
send it off to them, and then they would do a fourth draft, and that
would be sent to the booth. The booth would have our draft and Sarah
and Evan's draft, and then sort of combine them together with whatever
worked best, and that was sort of the hodgepodge that was the beginning. ]

enurtsol wrote:

Yeah, definitely take it with a grain of salt because there's at least a couple of perplexities.......

...To add to the shaky concept of two programs far tamer than most of the channels night-time comedies getting complaints that apparently no other show generated previously. Double shaky bonus the explanation has fans of 'Adult Swim' complaining themselves, which seems unlikely.

if that person posting on the chans forums was really from CN why the hell would they post there and not here or any other anime forum, the chans Hate anime fans and most of the time they take animes and twist them around for thier sick and twisted memes that they bitch about if someone other then them use it. Also if the parent's are upset about their kids watching WHY THE HELL would they let them in the first place instead of bitching and whining about it like the [expletive] catholics during the freaking crusades. they can just turn the [expletive] tv off or tell their kids to watch something else. on a different note it's been [expletive] censored what the bloody [expletive] hell more could they want. if parents are this [expletive] ignorant and won't take the time to either learn about anime and what would be appropreate for their kids to watch or just tell their damn kids to watch something else then the [expletive] isolationist catholics should [expletive] win their mentally unstable argument that all anime should be banned back to the "dark land of japan". I seriously call [expletive] bullshit on that person saying all that. if adult swim fought to get shin chan why the hell would they go and say that they didn't like it, and if they really gave a rats ass about what some uptight angry parent is bitching and whinning about their kid watching they would have done something more along the lines of reminding the parents of common sense like telling the kids to watch something else or tell them they can't watch it anymore not [expletive] throw a hissy fit and ruin it for the rest of the anime fans. if they did give a damn about viewers under the age of 18 then they might as well left the [expletive] midnight run of toonami and not change it to adult swim.
what I'm trying to say is that the person posting that is either spreading bullshit to either calm down the anime fans or is just some jackass trying to get a laugh the only way a channer would know how to, to torment harrass or threaten anyone they [expletive] want because they have an authority complex

Goodpenguin wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

Yeah, definitely take it with a grain of salt because there's at least a couple of perplexities.......

...To add to the shaky concept of two programs far tamer than most of the channels night-time comedies getting complaints that apparently no other show generated previously. Double shaky bonus the explanation has fans of 'Adult Swim' complaining themselves, which seems unlikely.

Biggest shaky, though: He acts like CG isn't being shown AT ALL anymore. As of this point, it's still on the streaming video portion of their site. If he was a CN employee, and did like CG, he would have known and mentioned that.

Also, the fact that he mentions complaints from parents suggests a troll trying to rile up a BBS by bringing up one of their personal boogeymen. I'd say BS is a fair call here.

I have to wonder if parents really may have had something to do with this. It seems like nowadays that parents blame the outside forces for molding their kids when they left the tv on to babysit in the first place.

Considering all the stupid Death note trouble, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere some kids are running around telling their friends to kill themselves and then friends following along.

I don't think a boycott should be used here, it probably will yield no results. I am sort of upset about Shin Chan, especially when other shows show more violent antics....such as a baby trying to kill his mother.

britannicamoore wrote:

I have to wonder if parents really may have had something to do with this. It seems like nowadays that parents blame the outside forces for molding their kids when they left the tv on to babysit in the first place.

To be honest, I'm indefinitely not surprised about this, especially with Code Geass.

>_> Ugh, this is the 3rd thing I've wondered about this month that has actually happened. CG was kind of risky being aired on TV anyway...

Now, this is only if that post is legitimate. Parents can be that ignorant. I had to tell my father what my stepbrothers were watching on AS, before he finally took off the TV...

Stroker and Hoop. *shudders* I don't know how that could be so tame to Code Geass.

Some people don't like politics. =/

Before this move, Code Geass and Moribito were airing at 1:00 and 1:30 AM Eastern, respectively; Shin-Chan was admittedly a bit earlier in the midnight slot. I'd like that CN "representative" to explain to me how mass numbers of younger children were watching TV at that hour, much less upsetting their parents by doing so. And considering that [as] airs parental advisories every hour on the hour, has been broadcasting mature animated programing in similar time slots for years, and has shown far more vulgar content than what any of these series have to offered, I'm calling total bull.

britannicamoore wrote:

I have to wonder if parents really may have had something to do with this. It seems like nowadays that parents blame the outside forces for molding their kids when they left the tv on to babysit in the first place.

Considering all the stupid Death note trouble, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere some kids are running around telling their friends to kill themselves and then friends following along.

I don't think a boycott should be used here, it probably will yield no results. I am sort of upset about Shin Chan, especially when other shows show more violent antics....such as a baby trying to kill his mother.

I wouldn't put it past some parents that sees "DANGER" in every single thing on the face of the earth that is out to harm little Timmy or Suzie. I'm willing to bet not too many of you know about the Parents Music Resource Center which gave us the Parental Advisory sticker, and the more recent Parents Television Council ubiquitous claim to fame allegedly is getting Janet Jackson's boobie in trouble. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the PTC has a few campaigns railing against Anime, albeit in a more muted form.

Plus you have to consider outside of the 18-34 demographic, Parents with Kids are a desired demographic to advertisers.

Then again, upon looking at this line:

Quote:

It boils down to a combination of low ratings and complaints. 1st off the president told us that CN had been receiving complaints from parents and AS fans for a while about Shin-chan and Code Geass.

Now, unless the poster mixed the complaints together, why would AS fans complain about content in Code Gaeas (Nudity) and Shin-chan (Potty Humor)?

Hon'ya-chan wrote:

Then again, upon looking at this line:

Quote:

It boils down to a combination of low ratings and complaints. 1st off the president told us that CN had been receiving complaints from parents and AS fans for a while about Shin-chan and Code Geass.

Now, unless the poster mixed the complaints together, why would AS fans complain about content in Code Gaeas (Nudity) and Shin-chan (Potty Humor)?

Maybe some AS fans who hate anime sent in letters against it? To see more AS programming?

That could be possible. I've visited the adult swim forums (only lurking) and there seems to be a massive divide in the fanbase. For the most part the people there are either fans of comedy or fans of the anime with very few that seem to be fans of both. The anime fans blast the comedy portion of AS for putting out subpar programming, and the comedy fans blast the anime for well... being anime. Personally I watch both parts of Adult Swim, and there are parts of both that enjoy and parts that I don't enjoy. But then again I don't think either fanbase on the board is proactive enough to actually do anything other than bicker at each other there.

Hon'ya-chan wrote:

britannicamoore wrote:

I have to wonder if parents really may have had something to do with this. It seems like nowadays that parents blame the outside forces for molding their kids when they left the tv on to babysit in the first place.

Considering all the stupid Death note trouble, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere some kids are running around telling their friends to kill themselves and then friends following along.

I don't think a boycott should be used here, it probably will yield no results. I am sort of upset about Shin Chan, especially when other shows show more violent antics....such as a baby trying to kill his mother.

I wouldn't put it past some parents that sees "DANGER" in every single thing on the face of the earth that is out to harm little Timmy or Suzie. I'm willing to bet not too many of you know about the Parents Music Resource Center which gave us the Parental Advisory sticker, and the more recent Parents Television Council ubiquitous claim to fame allegedly is getting Janet Jackson's boobie in trouble. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the PTC has a few campaigns railing against Anime, albeit in a more muted form.

Plus you have to consider outside of the 18-34 demographic, Parents with Kids are a desired demographic to advertisers.

Uh, except you both realize you are being taken for a ride from some poser who is probably having a hell of a laugh. He or she is probably some high school senior, or just entering college and is putting his/her new found writing skills to the test. Almost the entire thing of what this Channer says doesn't make any sense, yet (s)he would know that the very mention of parents doing anything will set the kiddies off in a rage of anti-establishment fervor. Throw in some professional sounding lines to make people think this is creditable and you have a full blown internet frenzy on your hands. The fact so many are putting faith in this guy is just going to make him feel more leet and continue the poser charade.

Dargonxtc wrote:

Hon'ya-chan wrote:

britannicamoore wrote:

I have to wonder if parents really may have had something to do with this. It seems like nowadays that parents blame the outside forces for molding their kids when they left the tv on to babysit in the first place.

Considering all the stupid Death note trouble, it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere some kids are running around telling their friends to kill themselves and then friends following along.

I don't think a boycott should be used here, it probably will yield no results. I am sort of upset about Shin Chan, especially when other shows show more violent antics....such as a baby trying to kill his mother.

I wouldn't put it past some parents that sees "DANGER" in every single thing on the face of the earth that is out to harm little Timmy or Suzie. I'm willing to bet not too many of you know about the Parents Music Resource Center which gave us the Parental Advisory sticker, and the more recent Parents Television Council ubiquitous claim to fame allegedly is getting Janet Jackson's boobie in trouble. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the PTC has a few campaigns railing against Anime, albeit in a more muted form.

Plus you have to consider outside of the 18-34 demographic, Parents with Kids are a desired demographic to advertisers.

Uh, except you both realize you are being taken for a ride from some poser who is probably having a hell of a laugh. He or she is probably some high school senior, or just entering college and is putting his/her new found writing skills to the test. Almost the entire thing of what this Channer says doesn't make any sense, yet (s)he would know that the very mention of parents doing anything will set the kiddies off in a rage of anti-establishment fervor. Throw in some professional sounding lines to make people think this is creditable and you have a full blown internet frenzy on your hands. The fact so many are putting faith in this guy is just going to make him feel more leet and continue the poser charade.

finally someone else who can see that this is just some bullshit prank to get everyone pissed off while the pranker gets a laugh out of it

I said I was wondering about it, never said I believed it.

It's still seems like a possible reason.. Considering that one of the two shows hadn't been on that long, and the other had better ratings some days than others...it seems like a logical idea.

Unless either of you has a better idea of what actually happened? Something outside of the "AS is a bunch of dicks" please.

britannicamoore wrote:

Unless either of you has a better idea of what actually happened? Something outside of the "AS is a bunch of dicks" please.

I can put forward a theory, if you want- Short answer: money. Long answer: I'd guess it's similar to what happened to Farscape a few years back. If anyone remembers that show, it was this awesome space show on the Sci-Fi channel. The Jim Henson Company was heavily involved in it, so while they used some CGI, they also achieved the shows unique look largely using animatronics and makeup effects. When it got canned, it was Sci-Fi's highest-rated show (I think). The fans were in an uproar because it didn't seem to make sense. But it did. It may have been their most popular show, but just by looking at it you could tell that it was by far their most expensive to produce as well- expensive enough that it was quite believable that even with high ratings, it wasn't making enough profit to justifying continuing to push it.

Now, I don't know what the costs on broadcasting anime are, or how much of the return CN gets, but I do know that anime is costly to bring to television. Licensing costs alone are killer, and those costs get passed along to someone. And we know that they don't get 100% of the DVDs. On the other hand, CN's original programming is cheap to produce (that's part of their charm, in fact), and they can hit just as hard- possibly harder- on the DVD shelves, while Williams' Street gets full profits. And because they're so cheap, one good solid hit like Metalocalypse or Venture Brothers can make up for a half dozen 12 oz. Mouses or Perfect Hair Forever. In short, the profit-on-investment works out a lot better.

(There's the added problem that fans of AS comedy generally don't disrespect the lineup to try and earn the 'most elite fanboy' title or watch fansubs instead of legitimate copies, but let's not go into that.)

Anyway, that's if you want the pessimistic view. There's a rosier picture, though, in that CG is still being aired on their streaming video site- which I'm surprised so many people are overlooking. Given all the talk about how anime needs to move to digital download to survive, this could be their way of pushing the future as a replacement for the regular lineup. I don't know, but I do know that as long as human beings live, we'll be telling stories to one another. So I'm not afraid of a future where there's nothing to watch on.

britannicamoore wrote:

Unless either of you has a better idea of what actually happened? Something outside of the "AS is a bunch of dicks" please.

'Adult Swim' is part of a network that runs as a business, not a charity service for animation. The 'Adult Swim' segment, which airs late at night/early morning, naturally looks to attract advertisers interested in a good demo performance in the 18-mid 30's category. Trouble occurs when ratings are so-so to poor, as well as various external evidence indicates much of the anime watching audience is probably under 18. Factor in much of Adult Swim's line-up is produced by them as well, so even if ratings for a home-grown show are no better than anime, the home-grown show also has much greater 'legs' in the profit department (DVD sales, no licensing hassles from other companies, etc.). As a business, the network makes a decision to go with home-grown shows, which entail a greater potential profit return and solid demo numbers than anime programing. A few anime programs are stuck in waste-land time slots to possibly fulfill contractual obligations on airing the shows to certain point, and possibly to buy time (while keeping with contract obligations) to ponder schedule adjustments as well at a later date.

The above lacks the rather feverish appeal of 16 pages of teen conspiracy theories centered on how a television network forsakes business realties to engage in a personal vendetta against an extraordinarily small niche fanbase, though it does carry the small grace of being practical and plausible.

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