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The Problem with "Manga Fairs" in Spain


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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 1071
Location: Spain, EU
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 4:54 pm Reply with quote
manug wrote:
As I'm sure you'll be able to understand despite your aggressive approach (...)
Here's the evidence. You don't know what you're talking about. Expocomic's last edition had the lowest attendance rate. Of course, official numbers said there were 40.000 attendees, which is absurd. Official numbers are about media impact, subsides and getting money from sponsors. As soon as you understand that (and make some research), you'll be able to face Madrid's conventions reality.

Hum... I could say sorry for the aggressiveness, but then again, I might be aggressive again when I start again...

I am sure you do know how "evidences" works: it's data you need to prove something: you gave "feelings". I know that "alternative facts" are the new fad, but you are proving nothing that way. Cool

Also, as someone said before (luckily not me), it does seems an advertising report for JWs. Which, we should note for people outside Spain, it's the very company who is launching "Manga Fairs"* all around the country, the whole year. In some places, more than once a year. Maybe, who knows, they are the reason there is a whole "overpopulation" of manga events? Twisted Evil

The problem with actual Manga (or comics!) conventions in Spain is that organizers do not provide anything worth the ticket. I mean, what do you got. Shops? Ramen restaurants? (we can find them outside) Some cosplayer? (as we use to say, very well known in his place when it's time to dinner) Chocolate fountains? (!) You can trick teenagers wanting to meet their friends or to show off their cosplays. But that has nothing to do with the ticket. And surely, if the organizers overcharge them, they will lose them, too.
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manug



Joined: 17 May 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Last round! I'll be glad to answer new questions - but concerning these issues, I think they're well explained at the article and clarified here below.

HeeroTX wrote:
You even interviewed convention directors but don't go into the REALLY important question(s). Whether the con is charging $1 or $1,000 dollars isn't the "point" if we follow along with your opening premise and why people have chimed in about how some fans would pay more for better quality. The point of the problem you cite is how the convention budget is APPLIED.


Yeah it is actually the point. As I explain in the article, the costs of organizing a convention are really high. Being working in a few of them, I know how the money is used and how there's no money to improve certain stuff because of the dependance on money. If manga conventions in Spain have become something different to its initial attempt is precisely due to low budgets which make organizers go for easy come easy go conventions.

HeeroTX wrote:
Based on what you put forth, Spanish cons are going low price to inflate numbers.


I've never said such a thing.

HeeroTX wrote:
It's pointless to say "raise prices by $5 and they can do what we want" if you feel people are running scams. Raising the prices doesn't mean better quality, it means they're just scamming away MORE of your money.


Well, that depends on the event. Of course there're shitty conventions as I mention in the article, but that's not the point at all. What I encourage Spanish conventions to do is to to update themselves. For those one following good practices, IT IS about the money. If you're playing with your attendees, of course it's not about the money. The thing is, in the article I talk about the first case scenario, not the second one.

Lemonchest wrote:
You compare Manga Fair's prices to other major conventions, asking why they can charge more while ignoring that, among other things, the costs of running & attending a weekend convention in Barcelona & Madrid are lower (London & Paris are two of the most expensive cities in the world). You wouldn't expect the site owners to charge rent based on rates in another city/country, so why expect a convention to price its tickets that way?


I really don't understand this kinds of presumptions. I've never asked for same prices as London & Paris. That's not what this is about. The problem is about limitations. Money limitations. If you don't have money enough to create quality content towards your event (but you have the audience) it's a problem about money. It's pretty simple. It's not about renting the space, running it or expecting people to come. It's about evolving and developing what you're offering to your audience. Again, you need money to do that.

Lemonchest wrote:
Indeed, the sentiment of your article seems not far off haranguing Spanish convention goers for not being sophisticated/serious enough to realise they should be paying more - which admittedly is a sentiment that seems to crop up a lot in this fandom.


Well, that's actually what I said in the article. It's a problem about conventions and its attendees. Both.

Lemonchest wrote:
It's ultimately on the operators to make their convention something attendees would pay more for, not attendees to pay more in the hope they get a better convention.


It's not about hope but a growth curve. Yeah, it's up to conventions to offer something attendees would pay for. That's ok for the first years. But, as any other company, start-up, whatever, you need more money to keep evolving as event. That's the problem and that's what the article is about. You're talking about not renovation nor growing model which has been running for years in Spain. And that's what I'm just reporting as something to eradicate.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2264
Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:31 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Quote:
They're more a hideous conglomerate of merchandising and recycled programs under a superficial climate of cosplay.

That's basically what a convention is to a T. With more memes of course.

I guess my question is what exactly are we expecting from conventions that they're failing to deliver?
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Gusanater



Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:43 pm Reply with quote
Great article Manu Very Happy

I wanted to ask if there are any worthwhile Japanese, anime, or video games hot-spots in Barcelona (or nearby). I plan to do study abroad in Barcelona and I'll be there for the entirely of June, so I'm really hoping to meet some foreign fans

Anyone is welcome to answer, much appreciated Anime smallmouth
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manug



Joined: 17 May 2016
Posts: 5
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:53 am Reply with quote
Gusanater wrote:
I wanted to ask if there are any worthwhile Japanese, anime, or video games hot-spots in Barcelona (or nearby). I plan to do study abroad in Barcelona and I'll be there for the entirely of June, so I'm really hoping to meet some foreign fans


That's great! I really like Barcelona - I live in the south of Spain but always try to spend a few days there once a year.

Every Sunday takes place the Sant Antoni flea market. They have lots of second-hand old videogames - some of them kind of overpriced, but it's worth a visit. For the anime/manga part, here's a good guide: https://www.timeout.es/barcelona/es/compras/tiendas-japonesas-en-barcelona. Most stores are near to each other, but the most famous one is Norma Comics.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:32 pm Reply with quote
manug wrote:
HeeroTX wrote:
Based on what you put forth, Spanish cons are going low price to inflate numbers.

I've never said such a thing.

It was implied by statements like this
"At this point, the question to ask is whether it's worth keeping this lowest-price model that has permitted manga fairs to maintain their attendance numbers at the expense of quality"
If that was not the intent, then I stand by my previous statement that you need a better editor.

manug wrote:
Yeah it is actually the point. As I explain in the article, the costs of organizing a convention are really high. Being working in a few of them, I know how the money is used and how there's no money to improve certain stuff because of the dependance on money.

Except you don't explain that, at ALL. You have the throw-away "it costs a lot of money" but there's no DETAIL. I can say I'm selling bananas for $100 per banana because "a lot of effort and cost goes into harvesting them". And that may be true. But that tells you NOTHING and doesn't explain why I can get a banana for $1 instead of buying your $100 version. I have ALSO worked conventions, including a convention pulling less than 1,000 people that was able to bring in guests from Japan and that's all about how you USE the money. Heck, you quote facility rental numbers that range from 10k to 100k euros. That is a HUGE RANGE. But let's just play pretend for a moment, let's take your "top" figure of 100k euros, you claim Barca Manga Fair had around 142k attendees. If they paid just 5 euros a head, that's still 610k euros to play with before taxes, and supposedly Barca MF costs double that, so that's around 1.25mil euros NOT going to facility rental, so where IS it going? You quote 2k euros (or triple that) for a Japanese guest. At the 6k figure you can have 40(!) of them and still have 1mil euros without impact on that facility cost.

If the biggest problem is paying for space to hold all the people coming to an event that is "not so much about the guests or the program", then why not scale back the SPACE and FOCUS on the things you say should be important? The only reason to spend money on larger space for more and more diluted content IS what I said before, to inflate attendance numbers (for Sponsors, Advertising and subsidies).

I do NOT think it's a good idea for all cons to disclose all their costs. But things are SO opaque that there's a LOT of money moving around behind the scenes that everyone wants to obscure and just wave their hands and say "just believe me, its expensive". I would even agree with the premise that 10 euros for con admittance is pretty cheap, but if you're gonna tell me the main "problem" is that attendees aren't paying enough money, I need to know EXACTLY where the new money will go, and arguably where the CURRENT money is going. If anyone is pocketing current monies, then explain why 100% isn't going to content before asking me for more money.
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stormesp



Joined: 03 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:41 am Reply with quote
Things to have in account:
As said on the article: The quality of the event, the guests, the promotions, the companies that participate with exclusives. etc.
And then:
France Minimum Salary being 1400€ and Spain Minimum Salary being 650€

Wich is not stated in the article, and you cant compare the price of an event in two countries with very different salaries and cost per person life.

The events on barcelona hosted by Ficomic as of now, are very embarrasing, and in my opinion not worth even half the price they ask you to get in (and i just got home from this weekends SDC in Barcelona. The most notable thing being an exposition of Will Eisner's work and having Dave Gibbons (Wwatchmen) as guest. Outside of that, nothing to do or anything worthile outside of the typical new releases and announcements from the editorials. Wich could happen even without this events.

And then we had for example Barcelona Games World last october from the first time. being the price of the ticket literally the double of Ficomic Events ( 8 vs 16€), wich i went to too. But was a really well constructed event, with a lot of games that werent out and you could try out, a lot of promotional stuff from big companies like Sony, Square Enix, Capcom, 2K, Bandai Namco. And then even a full floor of a palace dedicated to the Retro Barcelona, with a lot of awesome retro gaming stuff and a lot of old arcade machines. In short, an event that was well worth double the price of the SDC and SDM hosted by Ficomic. And could happily pay 20 bucks or more for it if they fixed some minor problems it had (like the very small space they gave to indie games, the innability to go out of the event for dinner etc).

So as you can see, 1 month previous to the biggest Manganime event of spain, in the same city and same exact palace people were willing to pay double the price of SDM ticket for a way better event, and i can assure you that a lot of friends and other people that went to it were happier with it than with any Ficomic event on the last 4 or more years. It had exclusive things, it had interesting stuff to do and watch and play. It had interesting stuff to purchase instead of the same generic bootleg shit and it had the colaboration of big companies. So there is no excuse for ficomic about people not wanting to pay more or companies not being interested in participating in spain events because of the crisis. Call me the day Ficomic does a half interesting event, because in the last 4 or more years of SDC and SDM they were all pretty forgettable.
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Usernameisalreadytaken



Joined: 05 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Spain
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:56 am Reply with quote
The problem is that most of us don't trust the current organizers to fork out 20+€ for an event.

Take as an example the event I've attended the most: Salón del Manga de Jerez. I first attended it on 2006 (it was my first event of that kind), and I've attended it every year until 2014, and then again on 2016. I won't atend it this year, though.

The problem with that Salón is that its entry ticket price has skyrocketed while it's almost the same thing every year. I barely see any differences between the 06 edition and the 16 edition, yet the entry ticket price went from 1€ to 8€. Worse is the case of the multi-day ticket, which the first years I attended that Salón spawned three days and only costed 1€ more than the base ticket. Now, there are two-day and three-day tickets with virtually little savings. Plus, if you add the ever-increasing price of public transport on top of it, you'll see that you're virtually attending the same event but at an insane price.

Mosts events here are blatantly cash grabs, recycling them year after year for an increased price.

Plus, there have been plenty of dickish moves by the various organizers around the country, ranging from exploiting the volunteers to trademarking a rival non-profit event so they couldn't do it anymore, selling six times more tickets than the maximum capacity of the place where one of these events were host, selling counterfeit merchandise and so on.

So, in short, I think most of us would gladly pay higher prices for better events, but we don't trust the organizers to deliver events which would be worth that price.
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RyderOtaku Si señor! OLE



Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:13 pm Reply with quote
Eg .. I do not know the English but, try to match when our salary level is low not accompany I am young, and I do not have to spend that money in figures and anime.

Other events will be what they want but here is so there is not so much follower to leave the money but above and what pisses me off is that there are no Japanese companies that invest in Spain and translate said anime in Spanish, everything in English in this life "it does not work." Even I do not know that level of English.

To make it go well:
  Let anime companies come and license more in Spain Where is "My hero academy" Where can you see the LEGAL anime? It is not licensed so anyone says it is the fault of piracy. Daisuki few animes and over in English so I will not see them I want them in my language.
Who is to blame the industry of the anime for not wanting to expand, it seems that Europe begins by the Pyrenees.

Can I put original Spanish text? In Spoiler?

Thanks and good day.
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