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NEWS: 4 Convicted in Pirate Bay File-Sharing Trial, Appeals Planned


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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:54 pm Reply with quote
Shale wrote:
I did this about five pages ago.

I've read your replies, but I don't see the explanation at all.

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given their own indexes coded into the site, with torrents manually sorted out and listed by season.

And what the heck did you expect from a torrent tracking site?

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TPB, by contrast, actively encourages its users to upload infringing files.

And my position here is where the conversations fall apart. I'm sorry, but upload to where again?

From the information I've gathered, users don't upload content at all. Please correct me if this is wrong.

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And a bag of green leaves that somebody says is "marijuana" could actually be oregano, but I somehow doubt that would fly in a dealer's trial.

Especially given the fact it was the definition of the "green leaves" as a narcotic that put the dealer in court in the first place.

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(Note: Obviously, this is has the potential to be an out-of-proportion comparison, depending on which side of the respective debates on drugs and piracy you inhabit. It still works.)

Agreed, so I won't delve into semantics given file names regarding the case.

But please do keep in mind when the RIAA sues an 80 year old lady, who has never owned a computer in her life, let's just hope you understand the difference between allegations and case facts.
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Shale



Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 337
Location: The Middle of Nowhere, DE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
And what the heck did you expect from a torrent tracking site?


Illegal activity, which is exactly what I'm seeing. I'm not sure what you're expecting.

To be specific: I can go to TPB, click on "TV Shows," and the next thing I see is a list of categories: 24, Prison Break, CSI, and so on. Clicking on one of those takes me to a list of torrents. Any argument that nobody could figure out that these are links to copyrighted material is laugh-worthy. And just as importantly, it's organized deliberately by the people who run the site; it's not a matter of an automated process pulling in copyrighted material along with the legitimate stuff, as is the case with Google.

Quote:
From the information I've gathered, users don't upload content at all. Please correct me if this is wrong.


TPB lets its users upload torrent links to the site, where they are then indexed and made available for search and download. That's how these sites work.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Shale wrote:
Illegal activity, which is exactly what I'm seeing. I'm not sure what you're expecting.

What I see is a service that's being abused. TPB has serious legitimate uses that are now overshadowed by the purpose of obtaining copyright materials.

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Any argument that nobody could figure out that these are links to copyrighted material is laugh-worthy.

Ask anyone who has torrented a file and found a virus instead.
Wink

Of course, semantics plays here. I can not (nor will) dispute the majority of content is copyright. That's just ignorant.

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TPB lets its users upload torrent links to the site, where they are then indexed and made available for search and download. That's how these sites work.

Just like you need a URL like 'www.google.com' to go to a web site and download content, you need a 'torrent file', a small file that tells the BitTorrent client the necessary info to download the content you want.

This is generally obtained from a torrent website. Many websites offer torrents as one method of downloading files. For example, OpenOffice.org, a free alternative to Microsoft Office, can be downloaded using BitTorrent. Other sites, like legaltorrents.com, offer torrents of all kinds of things - these sites are just repositories of torrents and usually don't actually create any of the content available.

They're known as indexes or trackers - there is a subtle difference between the two. (The Wikipedia article on BitTorrent trackers explains the difference.)

This is from the BitTorrent (creators, I gather) website. With additional reading, anyone with intelligence can easily see how TPB operates.

It's not about uploaded links. It's about searching computers open to allow the links to be posted.

In other words, it's the "Google of torrent files".

Doesn't matter if these links point to copyright material (Google points too). It ultimately comes down to the user making the choice to download the torrent, use a 3rd party app to extract the file from the torrent, and install the software.

Those three steps alone should exonerate TPB from copyright infringement. But that's just my opinion.
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Shale



Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 337
Location: The Middle of Nowhere, DE
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 6:44 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Shale wrote:
Illegal activity, which is exactly what I'm seeing. I'm not sure what you're expecting.

What I see is a service that's being abused. TPB has serious legitimate uses that are now overshadowed by the purpose of obtaining copyright materials.


Abused? No, used for its intended purpose. If somebody makes a website that includes a (working) link that says "click here to download Battlestar Galactica" and people use that link to download BSG, can you say that the site is being hijacked against its owners' intentions?

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Any argument that nobody could figure out that these are links to copyrighted material is laugh-worthy.

Ask anyone who has torrented a file and found a virus instead.
;)[/quote]
And if I buy pot, there's no guarantee that I'm not getting cooking spices. You're making my point for me - if that torrent doesn't contain illegal materials, then the downloader is being lied to.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:00 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Dargonxtc wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and defend anybody. But anyone with a lick of common sense knows that websites like these aid millions of people to break the law every single day.

To me, this is no different than using Google's image search to display all the images based on my query.
(Note: one thing to point out here that, in truth, Google is actually infringing to post those images in a list. After all, how can it extract said image without copying it?)
Now, about that "lick of common sense" remark...
Very Happy

So I guess common sense to you means that a site that searches the entire Internet, specializes in nothing, with results that will probably yield a 10% illegality rate, and informs it's users of what material may be copyrighted, takes the user to the source site if the user wishes to view the full image, a site the user could have found using any number of search engines even if they weren't searching for images in the first place, and a site that proclaims it specializes in illegal content first and foremost, will yield close to a 100% illegality rate when used, and whose general overall purpose is to pirate copyrighted material under lightest of guises, are exactly the same.

Common sense to you also means that a picture that at most costs $3.33 (assuming a $200/hr wage) and one person to produce, is the same as an entire movie that costs millions of dollars, hundreds of people, and tens of thousands of man hours to produce.

All of these things are exactly equal according to PetrifiedJello, yes?
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:30 pm Reply with quote
This is the full context of a private message from PetrifiedJello regarding my last post:
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Quote:
internet pirates like PetrifiedJello

To which, I'm clearly not. But you wouldn't know this given you don't read what people reply.


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tell the truth, when none of their lies, double-standards, or any other excuses they could externalize had failed to hide just what exactly they've been doing all along; stealing internationally copyrighted intellectual properties using their own intellectual properties of programs and web designs.

This is libelous material, young man. And this is sufficient evidence such if I wanted to sue you over it, I most certainly can.

But don't worry. I don't participate in that crap. Just warning you that your words can be used against you.

Now, answer me this: when have I ever stolen anything?
What damn evidence do you have to this bullcrap allegation?

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And gaining illegal benefaction in the form of monetary reliefs like service fee, ad revenues, and donations, when they hosted the stolen intellectual properties on their own websites,

And this remark makes the most ignorant person I've run across during this whole conversation.

Show me where the hell TPB posted infringing material. In fact, prove to me beyond all doubt the links provided by TPB point to infringing material.

Maybe you should shut the hell up long enough to understand how torrents work, because TPB doesn't infringe or point to infringing materials.

It never has. Only the owners of the copyright material you defend can place the seed for a torrent tracker to seek, genius.
In other words: If the users don't seed it, The Pirate Bay can't list it.

Don't make another idiotic assumption while claiming "rights".

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and became online service providers themselves not because of their own efforts, but through stealing other people's intellectual properties and then, without proper business licenses, illegally redistributing them with their own websites for profits.

Your misguided understanding in this comment is astounding.

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How internet pirates like PetrifiedJello created their programs, websites and how they sat up their online business are perfectly legal, it's what they do with their creations and the nature of their piracy business that's illegal no matter what they say.

Again, not true, because you're placing the damn blame on the wrong people.
If I create a website that allows my users to post photos, how in the hell am I supposed to stop them from posting copyright material?

Yes, I can take it down. But why in the hell should it be my responsibility to do so? I didn't put the damn thing there. A user did. It should be their responsibility to take it down.

But this is where you are at fault, DomFortress. You just don't get it.
Even a LEGAL, FREE TO USE WEBSITE CAN BE HELD LIABLE FOR ACTIONS OF ITS USERS based on the verdict of The Pirate Bay.

I truly feel sorry for you that you just don't get it. Especially when ARTISTS use TPB to promote themselves for free.

But you'll dismiss this too, won't you.

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Because the truth about what they do with their online business is stealing, and that's why they're wrong.

When my website goes live, you'll understand.

Until then, shut your mouth with your crap allegations.

You're being disrespectful.

This is important, because just like how PetrifiedJello threaten me with a lawsuit, it will be exactly what those 4 internet pirates can do as retaliation if they were found not guilty in the court of law; by filing a civil lawsuit called "Defamation, Libel and/or Slander" on the other party, and claim that as the "plaintiffs" of this civil lawsuit, their personal and business reputations had suffer substantial damage by the entertainment industry with:
Quote:
1. A false and defamatory statement concerning another;
2. The unprivileged publication of the statement to a third party (that is, somebody other than the person defamed by the statement);
3. If the defamatory matter is of public concern, fault amounting at least to negligence on the part of the publisher; and
4. Damage to the plaintiff.

And if they were found not guilty for their copyright infringement charge, the 4 internet pirates can surely pursuit with this counter-suit and win due to their innocent verdict on copyright infringement. This will then establish a precedent for the other internet pirates to follow their example, and overthrow the entire copyright protection system.

Personally, I think PetrifiedJello has gone far enough with this nonsense of his. He didn't just publicly lied about the case, twisted the nature of the copyright law, DMCA, fair use and Safe Harbor Act with his double-standards. But now he's privately threaten me with legal actions not because he's a dignified and rational individual, but a bully who's afraid to show his true intention in public. Well that's the last draw.

I, DomFortress, a 31 years old Richmond B.C. Canadian resident, here by publicly calling PetrifiedJello in third person, as a liar, a hypocrite, and a bully, on Thursday April 23. 2009, 9:30pm Pacific standard time. That's more than enough of an incentive for PetrifiedJello to file a defamation civil lawsuit on my person. If he had not been lying about the case, twisting the nature of the copyright law, DMCA, fair use and Safe Harbor Act with his double-standards, and privately talked down and threaten me. And if he didn't follow-through with a legal action, it's not because he's a dignified and rational individual, but a coward.

OTOH, I'll be readying his legal action against my person, by defending my action with the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But of course, that's if PetrifiedJello has the guts to go through with this.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:59 am Reply with quote
Wow! This could be the first flame war to actually go to court! Yet another great internet moment in history. Can we get this televised?
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Takeyo



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 736
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:08 am Reply with quote
Yeah, but chances are the footage will end up on TPB before most of us are able to watch it on TV. Wink
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abunai
Old Regular


Joined: 05 Mar 2004
Posts: 5463
Location: 露命
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:14 am Reply with quote
Oh, go take a long walk off a short pier...

Locked.

- abunai
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