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Survey: Do you give English dubs a chance?


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Furudanuki



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1874
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:54 pm Reply with quote
AirCooledMan_2006 wrote:
pimping "Otaking's" rant.

Yes, those prima donna translators have a lot of chutzpah foisting off ersatz translations upon the public. Don't they realize that the hoi polloi yearn for the nirvana of a completely kosher translation rather than a smorgasbord of terms from other languages? After all, polluting the purity of English with foreign words is a terrible faux pas, capiche? Thankfully though, there are gung-ho gurus of xenoglossophobia who have the cojones to say "Nyet!" to this meshugganah practice. Those who refuse to kowtow to this sabotage of the linguistic gestalt and insist on the whole enchilada in pristine English. Advocates who have the mojo to blitzkrieg those mongrelizing mafiosi, deliver the coup de grâce, and exile the pariahs to a gulag in the hinterlands.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:56 pm Reply with quote
I think ACM was referring more to how it sounds like those dreadful otaku who interject random Japanese into their sentences to sound..."cute".
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 660
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:06 pm Reply with quote
AirCooledMan_2006 wrote:

Even so, it makes no sense to keep the honorifics and special-meaning words intact, and it also makes no sense to keep name orders in Japanese style, either. It shows a complete disregard for the rules of our respective languages, and isn't intelligible to the average viewer or reader.

If you want to learn more about this, go on YouTube and do a search for "Anime Fansub Documentary".

@ exfusion: English voice actors not giving the same feeling as the original? That's a very spurious arguement, considering that the actors SPEAK TWO DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.


I'm also against that, too. Believe me, because I'm royally pissed off when almost every fansub is translated by a bunch of Japanophiles who wants to show off to everybody. I'm just making that commentary because it's not only Japanese stuff the only thing that many fans wants to keep "no altered by a dirty Westerner" but also everything that comes from Asia. (especially from EAST Asia. The Western ones, Israelis, Arabs and Hindus, are not very important for them)

BTW. 100 posts, WIIIII! Very Happy
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AirCooledMan_2006



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:07 am Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
I think ACM was referring more to how it sounds like those dreadful otaku who interject random Japanese into their sentences to sound..."cute".


(As Penn Jillette) Exactly! The dreadful Wapanese otakus interjecting random Japanese words into everyday speech (And who also think that "Watashi kawaii desu" is an intelligible statement in Japanese) and the translation sandwiches that pass for some dubs (Hanaukyo Maid Team, Basilisk, Ouran, Rozen Maiden, Azumanga Daioh, and Lucky Star anyone?) both sound pretty similar in their incessant, needless language-mixing. Language-mixing is absolutely BAD in all caps and over 9,000 exclamation points and must NEVER, EVER BE DONE (God I want to find and then beat the asshats who insist on that translation method!), lest the translation not sound intelligble to the average viewer (Again, we do NOT SAY "SAN", "SAMA", "CHAN", "KUN", "SEMPAI", ETC. IN THE ENGLISH-SPEAKING WORD, SO WHY THE HELL SHOULD ANIME DUBS AND SUBTITLES KEEP THESE HONORIFICS IN!?).

Case in point: Hanaukyo Maid Team. Seriously, why did they have to put honorifics in some lines and yet allow "master", "ma'am", etc., in English? There's only a few things to call this:

1. Hypocrisy.
2. Selective bullshit.
3. Appeasing fat, basement-dwelling, fansub-watching, neckbearded weeaboos who think Japanese is some sacred language passed down on golden plates by God Himself in an attempt to convert them to R1.
4. Distorting the message to fit the translator's own emotional and intellectual outlook.

Same thing goes for the other shows I just mentioned--language-mixing EVERYWHERE! If only more translators were like Otaking...
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:15 am Reply with quote
ACM, just to get your thoughts, do you find "sensei" acceptable? I mean, even a US cartoon (TMNT) used it, and it's a very common loan word like samurai, katana, shuriken...actually, most of the accepted loan words we have come from cheezy old live-action samurai flicks.
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AirCooledMan_2006



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 594
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:31 am Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
ACM, just to get your thoughts, do you find "sensei" acceptable? I mean, even a US cartoon (TMNT) used it, and it's a very common loan word like samurai, katana, shuriken...actually, most of the accepted loan words we have come from cheezy old live-action samurai flicks.


Never, except in the martial arts sense. (I even recall the Real Ultimate Power ninja book using it in passing. Loan words are one thing, but ersatz translations are entirely another.
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4620
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:44 am Reply with quote
Furudanuki wrote:
AirCooledMan_2006 wrote:
pimping "Otaking's" rant.

Yes, those prima donna translators have a lot of chutzpah foisting off ersatz translations upon the public. Don't they realize that the hoi polloi yearn for the nirvana of a completely kosher translation rather than a smorgasbord of terms from other languages? After all, polluting the purity of English with foreign words is a terrible faux pas, capiche? Thankfully though, there are gung-ho gurus of xenoglossophobia who have the cojones to say "Nyet!" to this meshugganah practice. Those who refuse to kowtow to this sabotage of the linguistic gestalt and insist on the whole enchilada in pristine English. Advocates who have the mojo to blitzkrieg those mongrelizing mafiosi, deliver the coup de grâce, and exile the pariahs to a gulag in the hinterlands.

I don't even think that I agree with your viewpoint...but seriously, this is awesome. Very Happy
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:53 am Reply with quote
This is SLIGHTLY OT, but still related.

It sometimes irritates me when they try to keep the name in Japanese to appease people who were big fans of the fan-subbed versions or know it by the foreign name.

As an example, Tenjho Tenge basically translates to Heaven and Earth, so what would have been so bad about calling the show by the English equivalent?

Same thing happened with Ikki Tousen, but Ikki Tousen is Ikki Tousen, so it's better left never spoken of again.
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shogun22



Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:17 am Reply with quote
As much as possible, I try to watch anime in Japanese with english subs, for some reason the Japanese seiyus seem to be better in expressing emotions compared to most english voice actors.

One of the best englisg dubs I've seen so far? The Studio Ghibli Movies dubbed by Disney/Pixar.
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MorwenLaicoriel



Joined: 26 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:58 am Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:

In light of your evidence, I shall admit that my gripes ought to be aimed at the director.

Thank you for providing that link. I listened to that audio clip.
Crispin's own sentiments of the alternative he tried to the rejected Romanian accent has made me utterly convinced that he was the wrong choice for the role.
I'm sorry if saying this causes offence, but I'd be lying if I were to say Mr. Freeman's own thoughts didn't leave me feeling somewhat offended.


You're welcome. If you're talking about the British accent comment, I can understand why you'd be offended, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Accents just tend to have stereotypes associated with them--sort of like how Osaka-ben is used in anime, and how dubbing studios tend to associate it with an American southern accent.

Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
It's like...if they'd dubbed Noir (I know I'm one of 3 people who've seen the show, but it's an example) and told the US actors to use French accents, well, then the show would have been a headache to listen to. Sometimes accents don't work, especially since dub actors don't have the time Hollywood types do to perfect the cadence and pitch.


I both agree and disagree with you on this. I definitely agree that sometimes an accent can be more distracting than anything. And with a show like Noir (which I have actually seen, although not all the way through) since it's actually set in Paris (from what I can remember?) we can just assume that everyone's actually speaking French and Translation Convention is in effect.
Also, there's times when an accent really is needed. I can't remember 100% if this line is in the anime or not, but I know for sure that in the manga of Chrono Crusade Chrono asks Satella if she's from Germany, then admits he figured it out because of her accent. If there's a line like that in the show, and yet the character is speaking in a plain 'ol US accent...well, obviously it'd just sound a little silly. (And yes, for those that haven't seen the dub, Tiffany Grant had Satella speaking in a German accent. spoiler[Monica Rial's Florette did, too, although when she's just "Fiore" she speaks in Rial's normal accent--which works well to contrast the difference between the two, I think.]

That being said, I can definitely see how it'd be hard for voice actors to have to consistently keep up a convincing accent, while taking into account that they generally can't take too many takes and they have to try to match the lip flaps on top of it.

Also, on the subject of Ghibli dubs...am I the only one that isn't too crazy about them? Don't get me wrong, I don't think they're bad dubs--on the contrary, I think they're really good--but my favorite out of all of them is Spirited Away, and most of the actors in that are actually voice actors that aren't particularly famous (with one or two exceptions). I mean...I liked, say, Christian Bale as Howl, but I don't really know what he brought to the role that a voice actor could've for a fraction of what they probably paid him.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:30 am Reply with quote
True, sometimes an accent can work. But to play devil's advocate, imagine how RUINED the Eva dub'd be if Tiffany Grant had vanted to sound like zis, yah? Seriously, that would have been worse than getting your brain scraped with a rusty scalpel. Or those shows where some chick shows up in a pseudo-medieval world; what if they'd tried to give the residents bizarre accents?



Actually, on that note, one thing that doesn't make much sense to me -- how do Japanese girls completely understand and speak with "parallel dimension/magical world" residents when in reality they'd have no clue how to communicate? Unless it's like an RPG, where everyone speaks a common tongue.

EDIT: Even in the case of something like InuYasha, it isn't so simple. I imagine Feudal Japanese had differences from the modern language, and Kagome uses modern expressions and phrases, so I can imagine the characters living in the period would, in actuality, give her dumbfounded looks and wonder what she was on about.
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DavidShallcross



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 1008
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:44 am Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:

Actually, on that note, one thing that doesn't make much sense to me -- how do Japanese girls completely understand and speak with "parallel dimension/magical world" residents when in reality they'd have no clue how to communicate? Unless it's like an RPG, where everyone speaks a common tongue.


Transportation to magical worlds includes the ability to understand the local language. Except when it doesn't.

Quote:

Even in the case of something like InuYasha, it isn't so simple. I imagine Feudal Japanese had differences from the modern language, and Kagome uses modern expressions and phrases, so I can imagine the characters living in the period would, in actuality, give her dumbfounded looks and wonder what she was on about.

They would probably think she is from some very distant part of Japan, where they talk funny. Look up "tsugaru-ben" sometime.
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Unit 03.5-ish



Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:59 pm Reply with quote
I must know something about another show...

I avoided DBZ for years because it was two fifths cheese and three fifths crappy dubbing. Did the FUNi redub make it watchable in English? I mean, since it wasn't sanitized and edited for airing on CN in their version.
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Hannish Lightning



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 376
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:32 pm Reply with quote
I only watch dubs because I don't see any point at all to watch the subs. And I don't like being distracted with text while trying to watch an anime. I like my eyes focused on the character and background.
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mglittlerobin



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 1071
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Unit 03.5-ish wrote:
Oh, just to clear it up I'm not knocking your choice, because that's YOUR preference, I just take offense at the sub purists who have an irrational hatred for ALL dubs based on the standards of 15 years ago. Of course, I avoid some shows altogether due to horrendous dubs (some of the mainstream toy-hawking stuff, for example), but I've found that the voice work on most dubs is good to excellent.

I know not everyone feels that way, I just don't get people who want to shove their opinion that dubs are superior down others' throats. Not saying you're one of those types, but I did know people like that a while ago and it pissed me off.


That states my position on dubs exactly, the only time I watch subs is in order to compare voice acting.

I find it quite funny that American Anime fans worship the Japanese language, I've never heard a Spanish speaking person say they LOVED watching Iron Man in English with Spanish subtitles.
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