Forum - View topicAmerican Cartoons or Japanese Anime
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Slayer
 Posts: 273 |
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That is true..there are bad animes and bad american cartoons.
On a saturday morning I would most likely choose animes over american cartoons. On a saturday night I would choose a bit of american cartoons(family guy,etc.) and balance it out with anime such as ghost in the shell |
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trackstar1013
 Posts: 179 Location: Canada |
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Full animation dont make me laugh, they repeat the same backdrops over and over... and over and over... and over and over... its easy to make a show that doesnt have any new ideas too, kyote tries to get road runner road runner outsmarts kyote kyote falls off a cliff. FMA isnt my fav anime but at least the idea and animation is clean and new. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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What's this? I answer a question honestly and without a trace of unwarranted judgement, at the same time providing a valid reason for my choice, and all of a sudden someone is trying to prove that my (admittedly subjective) opinion is wrong by providing equally subjective arguments? I'm not angry, but I'm a little curious why this question was posted if you don't want people to give you honest answers (unless you were just expecting the answers you wanted to hear...). Oh, and congrats, abunai, for your 1000th spelling-and-grammar mistake-free post! You're raising the intellect of the ANN forums one post at a time... 
It's spelled c-o-y-o-t-e.... |
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trackstar1013
Posts: 179 Location: Canada |
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Sorry if you feel that way I do want honest answers but I also want to participate in the descution all be it my view on amarican cartoons and anime are a little one sided but I do respect both sides of the argument, I was just trying to point out that Road runner contanies very poor animation.
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Haru to Ashura
 Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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Animation = movement. Something moving, in a state of constant movement. Anime = fps lower than Paris Hilton's IQ number. :lol: Anime also uses the same backdrops over and over, as well as entire scene repeats. I'd hardly call FMA clean. It's better quality than some anime, but they still use the recycle cels, the partile animation (aka where they only draw a body and move nothing but the mouth, maybe an arm, etc.) and other such gimmicks. What Cloe is saying is that she simply likes animation where the character's entire being moves. It's a personal opion. Either take artistic quality, or the plot quality. Don't judge animation quality by quality of the plot and ideas, though, because they all two seperate entities. Both industires have their ups and downs. The Japanese make up for the lack of of interesting character designs in America, but to say that FMA is higher quality animation (note my above definition) than classic Warner is naiive. (edit) fps = frames per second, in case someone doesn't know. Last edited by Haru to Ashura on Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kisaki
Posts: 49 |
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I mostly like anime more than American cartoons. Then again, I watch a bazillion Teen Titans reruns per week too. It really depends on my mood (whether I want to die laughing or cry my eyes out) and on the show. I also watch some stuff from France and Italy, by the way. It's cool because it's like Europe is trying its hand at mahou shoujo, like W.I.T.C.H. from France and Winx Club from Italy. Of course, I'd bet anything that Winx was a better show before 4kids got its hands on it, but it was still a very cute series. France and Italy have yet to produce a magical girl series as good as Sailor Moon or Tokyo Mew Mew, but you gotta give them props for trying. America on the other hand... I haven't seen any American cartoons that mahou shoujo style. I like a lot of stuff from D.C. though. Marvel doesn't really impress me, but I did watch some of Xmen: Evolution, mainly because of Cyclops and Jean Gray. Gotta see if they end up together, ya know.
As for my parents... oh boy, they are NOT supportive of my obsession with animation. My dad likes samurai movies so I tried to get him to watch Kenshin. He replied by saying "I only like a cartoon if it starts like this:" He then started humming the Looney Toons theme song. Sigh. My mom is even worse. She's constantly saying things like "I just don't see how a girl your age can be interested in this." I think that's pretty hypocritical, since her favorite movie is (I'm not kidding) Lady and the Tramp. Oh yeah, Mom, you're much more mature than I am. *Rolls eyes* |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Fair enough. I'll admit that a discussion is much more interesting to read than people simply responding to a question. 
Just to clarify some statements, though,
Haru to Ashura summed up this whole thing pretty well, actually. But as long as we're starting a discussion, my don't we include some facts? Just for the record, the average cel count for modern anime is 3000-5000. (You can validate the information here--second paragraph.) Keep in mind this is for about 20 minutes of animation, minus the TV openings and closings. However, the average cel count for classic animation--including the "poorly animated" Roadrunner--is about the same, 5000-5500. (I can't provide a link to prove this, as I got this number from watching countless Warner Bros. cartoons on freeze-frame, step by step.) This is for 7 minutes of animation. Take the information as you will (after all, the fluidity of the animation alone does not amount to quality), but that incredible cel count is enough for me to categorize the old Looney Tunes as well-animated. In terms of storytelling, I can't decide which medium I like better. They both have redeeming qualities and, as many have stated already, it depends on my particular mood. But most the time, great animation=great admiration from Cloe.
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trackstar1013
Posts: 179 Location: Canada |
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Yes I will admit that the cell count is high in Road Runner but as for content, its easy to have a high cell count when you re-use the same frames over and over, I can make a movie with a million frames per 20 min if it containes the same frames over and over. Have you ever noticed the backdrop is exactly the same. There is about 10 different kyote falling off the cliff scenes that get replayed over and over and the road runner running animation is repeated more then the back drop, not to mention all the explosion scenes are the same. I will admit that this is done a lot in anime as well, but it is done far less then Road Runner, new scenes that are choppy are far better then reused scenes played over and over.
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Um... when I say "cel count," I refer to original cels... (not counting loops, etc.)
In your defense, though, Road Runner does probably re-use animation more often than some of the other classic Warners animation. But its quality is still nothing short of amazing. Anyone who wants to learn the foundation of good character animation (ie Disney's "12 principles of animation") has all the refence they need from those cartoons, which is more than one could say for the average TV anime. |
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jfrog
 Posts: 925 Location: Seattle |
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While I certainly don't disagree that Roadrunner has better animation than FMA, cel count isn't everything. Like any recent Disney film, they just throw all these in-betweens at you, but since the key frame animation was fairly flat to begin with, it just doesn't work. But then you've got movies like Jin-Roh, that manage to do an awful lot with only 90,000 cels.
This is the same reason why I never liked Le Roi et L'Oiseau as much as everyone else - what good are all those tweens if the character animation reminds me more of Felix the Cat than Bill Tytla? |
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kainzero
 Posts: 309 |
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To note, Road Runner has a lot of action. In MOST action anime, if it's not new scenes that are choppy, it's cheap panning effects with moving backgrounds. I've seen it way too many times. |
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Haru to Ashura
Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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 We should start an American animation thread here or something.
..As for repeat scenes and backgrounds, lets' not forget how much anime overkills the use of flashbacks. ^_~ I'm going into animation in college and hope to make good career out of it, and I'd be excited to see American and Japanese animatiors work together to create something. It'd be like taking the best from both worlds. Pretty Japanese characters designs, and American animation quality. Now that would be awesome. Oh wait, there's already something like that!  Studio Ghibli!  I love Studio Ghibli, they're the best of both worlds.
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trackstar1013
Posts: 179 Location: Canada |
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What do they make? Mabey its something I have already seen.
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Chiroptera Rex
 Posts: 262 Location: The Batcave, Gotham City, Wisconsin. |
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I just love how The Frankman called it. An argument was bound to start.
"Look, I came here for a good argument." "No you didn't. You came here for an argument." Monty Python's Flying Circus "Argument Clinic" I started laughing when I saw the argument begin. It's always good fun to see arguments. It makes a board much more interesting. While I always do go back to the old Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, etc. cartoons, which I remember in a documentary a number of years back that Warner Brothers made the cartoons for adults and never expected kids to be interested in them, I have been totally addicted to anime since 2001 when I first saw Cowboy Bebop on Adult Swim. Before that I had watched the original Transformers and some movies like Akira, Ninja Scroll, and Ghost in the Shell, but since I saw Bebop I have been watching, and buying, more anime series. I love good storylines and anime has some of the best. I also love the fact that anime series actually end and don't peter out like American shows. There are definitely some animes that go on forever, but the bad thing with that is by the end of such a long series, when it's time to say goodbye, it's like I'm saying, "Finally!" Whereas with series that run 26 to 52 episodes long I am so sad to see it go. Sometimes I will put off finishing a series. I just don't want to see it end. |
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Sir_Brass
 Posts: 476 Location: Prescott, AZ |
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Studio Ghibli is Hayao Miyazaki's studio. I'll go SD and facefault if you haven't heard of HIM before, considering he's essentially a GOD of animation (Miyazki doesn't like his work labeled as anime, as he sees his work as being quite different from everything else produced. I remember doing research for a paper on him and finding that tidbit), and is recognized as being one of, if not THE master of animation in the world. Even Walt Disney's classic works can't really hold a candle to his stuff. |
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