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KitKat1721
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 955
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:06 am
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leafy sea dragon wrote: |
KitKat1721 wrote: | This will definitely make things harder for any smaller studio/foreign films to be noticed in a much larger voting pool. Since most voters in the old pool are already involved in some manner with the animation business, they are open to seeing more interesting outliers in the bunch, and more likely to treat them seriously when their target audience isn't just kids. |
There is, however, the inversion, in that most of the current voters for Best Animated Picture are in the animation business, and that means they're also more likely to be dead-set in their ways. |
Although we can also look at the types of films that have been nominated by this branch (films like The Illusionist, The Secret of Kells/Song of the Sea, Waltz with Bashir, Persepolis, Anomalisa, some ghibli films, etc) vs the ones that won, voted on by everyone (pretty much mainly Pixar/Disney with some rare exception. I wouldn't say they are dead set in their ways.
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JoeOfTomorrow
Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Posts: 61
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 7:25 am
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Does this change mean that movies in the same field as gems like Street Fighter II and Ghost in the Shell can get nominated or does it still have to be cutesy babysitter family friendly flicks? Because if not, I really don't care. Personally, I'll take Megazone 23 over Frozen any day.
Last edited by JoeOfTomorrow on Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lemonchest
Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 1771
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:57 am
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KitKat1721 wrote: |
leafy sea dragon wrote: |
KitKat1721 wrote: | This will definitely make things harder for any smaller studio/foreign films to be noticed in a much larger voting pool. Since most voters in the old pool are already involved in some manner with the animation business, they are open to seeing more interesting outliers in the bunch, and more likely to treat them seriously when their target audience isn't just kids. |
There is, however, the inversion, in that most of the current voters for Best Animated Picture are in the animation business, and that means they're also more likely to be dead-set in their ways. |
Although we can also look at the types of films that have been nominated by this branch (films like The Illusionist, The Secret of Kells/Song of the Sea, Waltz with Bashir, Persepolis, Anomalisa, some ghibli films, etc) vs the ones that won, voted on by everyone (pretty much mainly Pixar/Disney with some rare exception. I wouldn't say they are dead set in their ways. |
Minor technicality, but Waltz with Bashir was nominated in the Best Foreign Film category. In an ironic twist, it lost to a generic Japanese domestic drama. Now that was a snub.
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Posts Sometimes
Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 38
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:11 am
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The animation branch has been fairly open to nominating foreign and indie films, though they also tend to vote for the major American animation studios due to being involved with them personally. (That's why Lego Movie got snubbed: it was from a smaller studio and wasn't "artsy" enough to appeal otherwise.) Anime films are generally snubbed due to poor visibility, lack of Oscar campaigning, and lack of space in the field for smaller movies (usually only two or three spots a year).
On the "plus" side, this new rule change should stop European films from getting nominated. That's terrible for fans of animation, but at least whining anime fans will be more justified complaining about nominations for films like (for example) Sing and Finding Dory rather than My Life as a Zucchini and The Red Turtle.
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onyonz
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 26
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:12 am
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Even though Your Name was okay imo I still hope for an anime film to win any award. And YN has the highest chances so far.
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FloozyGod
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:15 am
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I want Your Name. to WIN NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:45 am
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KitKat1721 wrote: | Although we can also look at the types of films that have been nominated by this branch (films like The Illusionist, The Secret of Kells/Song of the Sea, Waltz with Bashir, Persepolis, Anomalisa, some ghibli films, etc) vs the ones that won, voted on by everyone (pretty much mainly Pixar/Disney with some rare exception. I wouldn't say they are dead set in their ways. |
I suppose so. I would still say that the split among "fans of traditional methods" and "fans of eccentric approaches" causes those movies to pop up among the nominations, but yeah, the larger Academy voting group will gravitate towards Disney/Pixar and sometimes DreamWorks as some of them don't really care to see any of them.
Posts Sometimes wrote: | The animation branch has been fairly open to nominating foreign and indie films, though they also tend to vote for the major American animation studios due to being involved with them personally. (That's why Lego Movie got snubbed: it was from a smaller studio and wasn't "artsy" enough to appeal otherwise.) Anime films are generally snubbed due to poor visibility, lack of Oscar campaigning, and lack of space in the field for smaller movies (usually only two or three spots a year). |
Well, The Lego Movie got backing from Warner Bros., which IS big enough to submit stuff. In mean, Disney helped get Spirited Away into the nominations (and helped it win). My impression is that The Lego Movie was rejected at face value for being based on a toy, and some people who didn't pay attention to the mainstream reception might have dismissed it as "120-minute toy commercial." The Dark Knight got snubbed too, and I think that was for a similar reason ("We're too old and mature to be watching Batman").
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Posts Sometimes
Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 38
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:28 pm
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leafy sea dragon wrote: |
Posts Sometimes wrote: | The animation branch has been fairly open to nominating foreign and indie films, though they also tend to vote for the major American animation studios due to being involved with them personally. (That's why Lego Movie got snubbed: it was from a smaller studio and wasn't "artsy" enough to appeal otherwise.) Anime films are generally snubbed due to poor visibility, lack of Oscar campaigning, and lack of space in the field for smaller movies (usually only two or three spots a year). |
Well, The Lego Movie got backing from Warner Bros., which IS big enough to submit stuff. In mean, Disney helped get Spirited Away into the nominations (and helped it win). My impression is that The Lego Movie was rejected at face value for being based on a toy, and some people who didn't pay attention to the mainstream reception might have dismissed it as "120-minute toy commercial." The Dark Knight got snubbed too, and I think that was for a similar reason ("We're too old and mature to be watching Batman"). |
Warner Bros. is a major studio, but Warner Animation really isn't that big (or at least wasn't at the time). The Lego Movie was their first feature film in more than a decade, so they didn't have the familiarity with voters that the other big animation studios have. Of course, being a giant toy commercial hurt its chances too.
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leafy sea dragon
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:49 pm
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Posts Sometimes wrote: | Warner Bros. is a major studio, but Warner Animation really isn't that big (or at least wasn't at the time). The Lego Movie was their first feature film in more than a decade, so they didn't have the familiarity with voters that the other big animation studios have. Of course, being a giant toy commercial hurt its chances too. |
That's true--I couldn't really think of any theatrical animated films Warner Bros. had done recently that they'd feel proud enough to nominate, or even semi-recently. (Space Jam isn't exactly Best Animated Film material, after all.)
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Tenchi
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4474
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:07 pm
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Gemnist wrote: |
Two Pixar movies; there's Cars 3 and Coco.
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Only one Pixar film is likely to be nominated (and probably win, if we're being honest), Coco.
The only Pixar sequel to ever get nominated for Best Animated Feature was Toy Story 3 (since the category didn't yet exist when Toy Story 2 was released).
FloozyGod wrote: | I want Your Name. to WIN NEXT YEAR!!!!!!! |
Your Name can't be eligible as a 2017 film since it was already submitted for 2016. which was a huge mistake since it would have been much easier for Your Name to get nominated after so many more people had seen it in the nationwide release compared to the single theatre eligibility run last December.
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EricJ2
Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:34 pm
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We're going to get the usual "The Academy thinks cartoons are for kids!!" gripes from the fans who wanted Your Name to be nominated last year, but the sad truth is, they DO.
The West-coast movie industry isn't as animation-friendly as the animation insiders and NYC arthouse voters that wanted to see The Red Turtle get a little recognition--Over on the other side of the continent, they're just now trying to understand why Dreamworks went under, and gosh, does this mean audiences don't like Shrek anymore? They're not exactly going to be lining up for The Wind Rises, unless a big reliably mainstream commercial studio like Disney tells them it's an official World Classic that "has" to win.
The "low turnout" isn't just because they don't recognize the nominees, it's also because overworked studio-tech Academy voters, in an open final-voting category, don't feel they have the generous spare time to devote to sitting through Despicable Me 3 or The Secret Life of Pets to determine whether it really was better than either Zootopia or Moana--especially when the answer is pretty darn likely to be "no"--and just go with their own default gut loyalty, which likely was to the Disney or Pixar from the beginning.
There was an article (somebody's probably posted it three times already by now) where anonymously interviewed voters three years ago said EXACTLY that, and those still grudging over why Pixar's offensively underwhelming Brave beat out word-of-mouth Disney 00's-Renaissance staple Wreck-It Ralph in '12, just on the strength of its Pixar pedigree, already know how the process works.
Still, it's a first step--They haven't had enough "low turnout" in Best Picture voting yet to figure out how to fix the basic problems, but it's a nice practice run here.
Like most of the dreary Best Picture nominees being provided by the NBOR critics nowadays, half the Animated nominees are now being provided by the insider and arthouse fans to fill in the new lack of Dreamworks, and it's a sign of how interest starts waning fast once things get less commercial.
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H. Guderian
Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1255
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:10 pm
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I do not want or need validating from this Academy, and would gladly join my fellow poster above who would rather watch the old SFII movie over again. Otaku have never and will never need these fancy awards. I could even suggest Miyazaki's work declined since he got the foreign nod.
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jdnation
Joined: 15 May 2007
Posts: 2016
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:52 pm
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There should just be a Best Foreign Animated Film category.
Problem solved.
But I guess that's five precious minutes of their broadcast they'd rather waste on awkward jokes and liberal politics.
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Tenchi
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4474
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
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Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:37 pm
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^ It's a nice idea but, if the Academy is having trouble getting members to vote in the regular animated feature category with mostly mainstream nominees, they're not going to add an even more esoteric animated feature category.
It's why serious animation fans should care more about Annie than Oscar, since Annie has a separate "Best Animated Feature - Independent" category where it's largely foreign animated films that are nominated and are often winners.
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Zin5ki
Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
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Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:41 am
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Tenchi wrote: | It's why serious animation fans should care more about Annie than Oscar, since Annie has a separate "Best Animated Feature - Independent" category where it's largely foreign animated films that are nominated and are often winners. |
Come to think of it, it would probably placate many of us for the Academy to enforce a Hollywood/Independent divide across all their award categories. For every token doled out to the big studios' runs of the mill, another would go to something that stands by its own merits alone. An imperfect arrangement certainly, but one which would at least acknowledge and mitigate against the system's inextricable flaws and influences.
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