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reanimator
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:03 am
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What waste of money and labor. Not to mention discouraging. I do respect Madhouse for its titles and quality, but this doesn't feel right. I wonder this Otakon video is just a promotional animation for Otakon convention. If it is, then I have no problem because it's just a business promotion.
If it tries emulate Daicon films, I think it undermines the creative spirit of amateur animation production. Is Japanese animation a special artistic realm where foreigners view themselves inadequate to draw its "style"? What happened to creative and talented individuals who can make interesting animation? Or is American fandom is so full of bias that we're not good enough to create stylized animation? Or are we used to copy & paste method of video editing that we are too lazy to create things from scratch?
There are tons of animation students in this continent who would die for the experience. It would be much more wiser to set up a contest for students to make anime-style animation. Thus encouraging young people to be creative and experience fruit of their labor.
Daicon has a special place for anime fans because these amateur, yet creative, individuals called Gainax pooled their talents and resources together to make their fun short films. It's just wrong not to offer similar opportunity to amateur film makers.
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Aresef
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 914
Location: MD
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:01 am
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Roguespider wrote: | Not to be pessimistic, but I've gone to Otakon for the last few years. The first few years were great, then I was highly disappointed when they cut the tier pre-reg and group reg (and then using the high end price), though the con was ok. Then last year in my mind was a wreck. And now I look this year to see they've raised rates. They say they want this year to be the biggest ever, well besides the fact that every thing (not just cons) say that, I'll hold off my judgment. I'd almost hope that Madhouse was donating the video for free (which I doubt), cause this doesn't seem to justify the rate hikes of late. Don't get me wrong, I think the video could be cool but I think money could be better spent elsewhere. I definitely hope there is more to come in Otakon's pipeline to justify everything. |
Last year went great. Don't know what you're talking about.
This *is* going to be the biggest Otakon ever. I mean, look at the cards they've played in the last couple of days between this and JAM Project. They also promise more stuff coming down the pipe.
And yes, it's likely the video was a birthday present dealie from Madhouse. And you're complaining about a $5 rate hike? Huh? We got an explanation about that right on the spot. Rising costs of gas, hotels, and everything else. It's also not cheap to rent the Arena for two days. And besides, how far will $5 get you in the Dealer's Room anyway?
Quit being a pessimist.
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jvowles
Otakon Representative
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:28 am
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Madhouse isn't donating the video. It's part of our promotional planning, and yes, it's something a little special for our anniversary year, but it's also something we'll be able to use for a few years.
It is FAR from the only surprise we'll have for you this year.
As for worries about fan creation, we have two things up our sleeves for that, but they'll have to wait a few weeks, after I'm back from Tokyo.
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thebaron
Joined: 12 Aug 2002
Posts: 149
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:11 pm
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Otakon has several things in the pipeline that could be huge for this year, but I was slightly involved on one of the meetings about the animation and we had fun coming up with ideas for what might happen. I don't see it trying to outdo Diacon nor was it the idea, but it should be neat.
Remember folks helping out your local conventions by becoming staff or even becoming just a minion helps out a lot!
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Proman
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:14 pm
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This sounds really cool. I admit, I also immediatly thought of Daicon animations but they were more or less amateur productions which gave this this incredible feeling of authenticity. I hope Madhouse is able to preserve that.
I also wonder which music track they will use. I'm guessing no ELO this time .
Really hope I get to go to Otakon this year.
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1461
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Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:29 pm
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jvowles wrote: | Madhouse isn't donating the video. It's part of our promotional planning, and yes, it's something a little special for our anniversary year, but it's also something we'll be able to use for a few years.
It is FAR from the only surprise we'll have for you this year.
As for worries about fan creation, we have two things up our sleeves for that, but they'll have to wait a few weeks, after I'm back from Tokyo. |
^__^ Hey there, so you're back in the states! How was your trip?
And yeeeaaah, Madhouse!
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DigimonTamer
Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Posts: 43
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Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:46 am
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reanimator wrote: | What waste of money and labor. Not to mention discouraging. I do respect Madhouse for its titles and quality, but this doesn't feel right. I wonder this Otakon video is just a promotional animation for Otakon convention. If it is, then I have no problem because it's just a business promotion.
If it tries emulate Daicon films, I think it undermines the creative spirit of amateur animation production. Is Japanese animation a special artistic realm where foreigners view themselves inadequate to draw its "style"? What happened to creative and talented individuals who can make interesting animation? Or is American fandom is so full of bias that we're not good enough to create stylized animation? Or are we used to copy & paste method of video editing that we are too lazy to create things from scratch?
There are tons of animation students in this continent who would die for the experience. It would be much more wiser to set up a contest for students to make anime-style animation. Thus encouraging young people to be creative and experience fruit of their labor.
Daicon has a special place for anime fans because these amateur, yet creative, individuals called Gainax pooled their talents and resources together to make their fun short films. It's just wrong not to offer similar opportunity to amateur film makers. |
No offense but Otakon is an anime convention so getting a HUGE anime studio like Madhouse to animate something like this is a huge deal for the anime fanbase and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't excited. If they got some amateur to do this than nobody would care. At least I know I wouldn't care in the least.
[sarcasm]Also, while we are at it, I think we should totally forget about great musical acts like L'Arc en Ciel in 2004 or JAM project for this year. We should only have amateur bands that would get nobody excited. Also, how about the great japanese and american voice talent that we are so used to hearing? I don't know about you, but I would much rather have amateur voice talent from some local university as a guest.[/sarcasm]
Stop being so butthurt, it's an anime convention, have fun with it.
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reanimator
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:23 am
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DigimonTamer wrote: | No offense but Otakon is an anime convention so getting a HUGE anime studio like Madhouse to animate something like this is a huge deal for the anime fanbase and I would be lying if I said that I wasn't excited. If they got some amateur to do this than nobody would care. At least I know I wouldn't care in the least.
[sarcasm]Also, while we are at it, I think we should totally forget about great musical acts like L'Arc en Ciel in 2004 or JAM project for this year. We should only have amateur bands that would get nobody excited. Also, how about the great japanese and american voice talent that we are so used to hearing? I don't know about you, but I would much rather have amateur voice talent from some local university as a guest.[/sarcasm]
Stop being so butthurt, it's an anime convention, have fun with
it. |
Sir, you're missing my point. This is not my belly-aching. Let me just clarify my opinion.
I have NO problem of Otakon setting up a contract with Madhouse to make its promotional video. That's great. It's not different from a company hiring a film production to make a commercial for them.
I do apologize for my intention being skewed off. I was trying to express my concerns and not to downplay Otakon/Madhouse deal by using "WHAT IF" situation. I'm glad that it was never the Otakon's intention to emulate the spirit of Daicon films. Someone's mentioning of "Daicon" set me on fire. Personally I hate to hear from people who might give the same reverence to Otakon promo video as Daicon films. That's how much "Daicon" films mean to me and other animation lovers. Also I'm surprised that a US anime convention managed to gather enough capital to come up with a professional quality animation.
What is wrong having showcasing amateur films? Nothing. It's a way of showing one's creativity. If an average Joe worked hard to make a good animation film, I still believe that he or she deserves recognition of some kind.
I do not know if there was a precedence of setting a special event for amateur musicians for anime conventions in first place. It's always great to have a major pop artist from Japan performing for a convention. However, It's not fair to compare Pop artist performance with amateur film making.
I'm an old school fan. I had my share of fun with anime conventions.
Is anime convention themselves changed? Yes. Hiring a well known studio to make a promo film is a step forward. Having a concert by a pop star is a step forward. Having more and more attendees is a step forward. I believe firmly that showcasing of fan made animations eventually become that step as well. For some people, having fun is not just going to panels and events, but to experience the fruit of their labor.
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britannicamoore
Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2618
Location: Out.
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:43 am
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a happy britmoore as well. I may be attending Otakon. I wish I could make up my mind.
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tygerchickchibi
Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1461
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:11 am
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reanimator wrote: |
I do apologize for my intention being skewed off. I was trying to express my concerns and not to downplay Otakon/Madhouse deal by using "WHAT IF" situation. I'm glad that it was never the Otakon's intention to emulate the spirit of Daicon films. Someone's mentioning of "Daicon" set me on fire. Personally I hate to hear from people who might give the same reverence to Otakon promo video as Daicon films. That's how much "Daicon" films mean to me and other animation lovers. Also I'm surprised that a US anime convention managed to gather enough capital to come up with a professional quality animation. |
Then forget Daicon. Only a few people compared it to the con, really. I still see no point in still getting mad about it either.
Anyway, Jim already came in and had said that Otakon has a good relationship with studio madhouse. I don't see why it can't be done again.
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jvowles
Otakon Representative
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 219
Location: Maryland
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Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:49 am
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Just by way of clarification: the Daicon opening animations are legendary. They hail to what I jokingly refer to as "the before-time" when fandom was tiny, and it was about the celebration of what we love rather than a huge megalith. It hasn't really been done since then, not in quite the same way. It was time to change that.
The Daicon IV opening animation is an inspiration to our opening animation -- just as Otaku No Video is an inspiration to our convention. That's why we show it every year -- it's practically our mission statement to create Otakuland, even if it's just for a few days. The energy and spirit, the sheer love of all the stuff we celebrate at Otakon, is something we hope will come through. Madhouse *gets* it, and they know us and our fanbase pretty well because they're here in some capacity every year.
I see nothing at all wrong with paying homage to one of those seminal moments of fandom. I'm not sure I understand the concern about similarity to the Daicon stuff; no matter what we do, those pieces will exist unchanged. But they're twenty five years old now, after all. An entire new generation (two, really) of fans exist now. In a perfect world, an ideal outcome would be that our effort becomes a touchstone for them, just as Daicon is for the old-school fans.
As for how it happened: we came to Madhouse with the general idea, told them how much money we'd budgeted, and they told us what that would get us.
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