Forum - View topicREVIEW: xxxHOLiC DVDs 1-2
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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If for whatever reason I wind up with two volumes of one show, I send 'em both to the same reviewer and they do one review for each. Someone else will likely review vol. 3.
As for Casey's final paragraph, it was her take on the show. Disagree all you like, but it was part of her opinion and thus it belongs in the review. Obviously she felt strongly about it. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Well, can we get a second look by a different reviewer?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Well, we only get one screener copy and I don't ask my critics to spend their own money to review anime (they all have rentanime.com accounts). So we'll get a different take on the show from whoever reviews volume 3. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Bunk. If the baseline of a review was whatever under the sun the writer has an opinion on, there wouldn't be editors. Maybe in another review a character can remind a reviewer of an earlier boyfriend/girlfriend, and the writer can spend a few paragraphs knocking the show because it brought to mind a bad relationship. It's their opinion and they feel strongly about it, so it belongs in the review! The inclusion of 'liberal/conservative' politics was a highly subjective reach in no way warranted by what's presented in the material. The writer includes this purely 'Culture studies' class-exercise style to pass judgment on the series, so it's a material complaint:
This is leaving aside the, put politely, questionable intellectual strength of the remarks to begin with (Personal actions affecting outcome is an ideological marker? Oprah and the self-help bunch are part of a 'militant conservative/libertarian' crowd? Yeesh, Liberal Arts College drama much?). I realize from various context that a huge portions of the ANN staff share certain leanings, but reviews are not 'whatever you feel' opinion columns. Deal with what the show does, not how it subjectively fits on a personal partisan litmus test. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Casey didn't go on and on. It was a few sentences. I've seen xxxHolic and I think she may be on to something, although I'm not sure if she's correct. It's an interesting take on the show, that's for sure. If someone submitted a review wherein they really did go on and on for pages on a tangent about their ex boyfriend I'd reject it. A few lines about a perceived political message in a show isn't something I object to.
I think you're a really smart guy and one of the best posters we have here on ANN, but I think you're overreacting a little here.
Again, it's a few sentences. The review in no way revolved around that concept, she mentioned it briefly at the end. Casey will probably pop into this thread to defend her comments, but lately I've been experimenting with a more open policy on what's OK to include in a review, because I'm interested in compelling, fun, unique, and occasionally even controversial review content. Hence Carl's Death Note review. In spite of all the forums rage, you would be surprised how much private praise that review received. You don't see the positive emails, private messages or conversations I have with people so it's easy to fall into the notion that everyone hates a review that includes a unique viewpoint or an unconventional take, but that is simply not the case. There are approximately 10 billion places you can get "this show was good because I liked the art and the story was neat"-style reviews, and most of the time, that's what we do too (although of course, I think we do it really well, but I'm biased). I have the benefit of having very intelligent and thoughtful people on my reviews team and I like that every now and then - and this is very, very, very important to recognize - every now and then, not all the time nor even very often, they turn out something that's a little unorthodox. People react to that differently, and I like seeing those reactions, good or bad. All it does is foster conversation. |
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3491 Location: Back stateside |
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As much as a lot of this review is... well, read other posts, I do have to agree that the first season was weak. Partly its the length; there wasn't enough of the manga to fill a complete 24 episodes, and they have to resort to filler quickly (though not as much or as poorly as Tsubasa). Partly it's that xxxHOLiC was truly dependent on Tsubasa at this early point in the series, and stripping Tsubasa from it weakens the story's overall structure. It's not bad, but not brilliant, and the manga's better.
I'm not sure whether it's worth paying the amount of money anime DVDs cost for the first series, but I do hope enough people buy it that they'll license the second, which has been very good and much more enjoyable than the first. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Zac, (and saying this conversationally) there's a difference between moving beyond the usual 'Art-good, story-ok, etc.' style review, and taking things in political/idealogical territory. Things like the 'Death Note' review, which I complimented, dissected the philosophy the show itself puts out front. A lot of fans just skip right over the 'undertones' of series, and I thought it was great the reviewer sat back and said 'You know what, let's look at this stuff for once'. Some folks liked it, a lot did the usual 'internet culture' "ARRGHH, no one say anything bad about what I like!!", but the review plainly handled material *expressly given* by the show itself. I'm all in favor of reviews tilting a little more mature/interesting and looking at the underbelly of shows. Sometime that indeed does call for talking about things like gender perceptions, ideologies, etc., (and there's been many conversation about things like nationalist themes, sexism, 'moe's' depiction of women). But as someone who both works in media and academia, making things specifically about liberal/conservative viewpoints, or reviewing from a purely partisan spectrum (Here's my Marxist/Hayekian/Straussian, etc., take on this) is an invitation to a lot of headaches and fighting. The kind that turns a community attitude sour in a hurry, and promotes 'my side and yours' feelings. I don't begrudge Casey for having 'off-the-center' personal viewpoints, I'm a PhD. student in Poli-Theory and deal with idealogical takes all the time. However, perhaps a weekly/monthly clear-cut opinion column dealing with looking at anime through idealogical perspectives would present a better place for subjective *idealogical* takes. 'Left on Anime' or some such. An opinion column carries different expectations than a straight review, and if folks don't necessarily take to the writers viewpoints, they can simply not read it. I think your idea of pushing the boundaries on standard reviews is a fine idea, but I can't stress enough what a dicey area it is to get into politics/ideology, especially if it's very subjective takes that aren't necessarily intended by the material. Opinion columns handle that 'academic/eclectic' stuff much better, and give a writer a lot more shoulder-room in the 'reader expectations' dept. If I read in an opinion column that a writer hates a Giant Robot series because the mecha don't use renewable fuel and pollute the environment, that's quirky but that's what opinion columns are there for. If I read that kind of thing in actual reviews, or things along the lines of 'As a structural feminist I thought Tenchi Muyo..', I'm reasonably not spending to much time with reviews from that site in the near future (not implying that's what ANN is doing at all, but you get my gist). |
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Kyokat
Posts: 50 |
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I think this hits the nail on the head. Everyone knows opinion columns can be about any topic you like, and utterly subjective. Reviews, on the other hand, are considered at least somewhat objective, or at least that's the mental association most people have. It seems clear to me that Zac thinks reviews are/should be opinion columns, which I can't say I agree with. Yes, reviews are subjective too, but that shouldn't prevent a good reviewer from being able to dispassionately talk about the title. If Zac would rather have opinion columns than reviews, call a spade a spade and label them opinion columns. |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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They would only have to mail the screener back to you for you to mail it to the next reviewer. Alternatively, reviewer #2 could rent it out of rentanime. Screener DVDs are essentially the released version anyways. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4461 |
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I'm not going to lie Goodpenguin, I agree entirely with what you've said. Out of the ordinary reviews are great, that's the whole reason why I bother to read them rather than just go straight to the scores, but it can lead to completely changing a person's perception of the review itself. I'll admit, if the last bit had shown up earlier, I would have had a hard time hearing out the rest of the review. So yes, I like unconventional reviews, but an opinion column might be more appropriate for certain topics.
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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QFT. I agree with these sentences entirely. I can see some of staff has already replied, so I am not going to "get into it". Other than to say that I thought the review was well thought out, and semi-fell in line with what I have seen thus far. That is, until the end where I had to wipe the review completely from my memory for total lack of any objectivity. I then had to question and double guess the hidden meaning of every single thing I had read before. This is meant to be funny more than anything. But is this an instance where the phrase "you came on a little strong", would plug right in with no problem?  Like a used car salesman.
As for the anime. I liked it. I love the manga though, and I think it would be difficult at best to capture and transfer the spirit of that work into animated form. So I think that is a big problem right there. I could safely bet that on average those that haven't read the manga will probably enjoy it more than the ones that did. Me? I try to view them as completely seperate so I can enjoy them both. 
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Well, Casey's take on things are always an interesting change of pace. My main disagreement with the review is the "sticker shock." $30 has been standard retail price for singles for a long time, so I'm not seeing what's so shocking about this.
As I haven't actually seen the series, I can't comment too much on the series' philosophy. But I find it difficult to believe that it is saying that no one is ever the victim of circumstance. I don't mind this kind of stuff in reviews, in fact I welcome it, but I have to disagree with Casey's point unless she can pull some lines or scenes as examples that strongly support this claim. Simply because the series deals with a bunch of people that cause their own problems and have to deal with it doesn't mean the series is saying that no one ever suffers from problems that aren't their fault. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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This is a big pain and postal cost to re-review something to appease a handful of forum goers, no offense. I'll get a new take on the show from whoever reviews volume 3.
That's not at all what I said. At all.
You're right about this. Personally I thought it was a few lines of a review that entered into some interesting new territory. But it was a gamble, and the response shows me that people won't accept that sort of thing in a review. I'm glad we see eye-to-eye on Carl's review because the amount of whinging over that was disheartening and disappointing to me, so at least I'm not being told by the readers that anything less than an extremely straight-forward formulaic and predictable review is unacceptable. This though is another matter and I think you have a point. I don't agree with your reaction completely - my position is obviously more flexible than yours is - nor do I think all the chatter over Casey's review is even really warranted, but I do listen to you guys and your voice is very clear on this. So consider yourselves heard. |
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portgas
Posts: 66 |
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It's nice to see attempts at a more "academic" approach to review, but one has to remember that even even the humble review needs to have some proof or examples, otherwise it just becomes pseudo-academic maundering.
I did mind the "consistently advances such a militantly conservative libertarian view of the world." A bit over interpreted, eh. (To paraphrase and over extend Freud, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.) Was this intentional? Certainly makes it sound as if it were and I would very much doubt it. Interesting idea, but only makes sense when it can be elaborated in a larger study, not as a closing paragraph in a review. I could contend that xxxholic is about the secret adventures of Lenin and Trotsky. Interesting idea and we can all talk about it. I could probably make a good case for it, but it's just not right. Darn, now I've got that "operatic" Peony Pink (Clamp School Detectives) going through my head. |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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Zac wrote:
Along that, let me just doubly reiterate that more contextual/philosophical reflections on anime is a fine and interesting additional to reviews. From shows like 'Death Note' which prominently feature 'philosophical' undercurrents, to how cultural attitudes and norms in Japan reflect in anime, and how that clashes with American social values, there's a lot of 'meat' inherently present in the material to work with. As usual, especially on the internet, some will complain, but agree with the takes or not it's warranted by the material. Specifically, liberal/conservative style political opining is a thorny commodity. This goes double when it's put in service of an issue that doesn't start political in nature. I know I probably sound like a wet-blanket, but that style of political measure carries a lot of attached emotions with folks, and it's very, very easy to get the acrimony going, even in the most well-meaning of circumstances. Political arguments carry a special 'weight' as well, and it's like the old tooth-paste analogy: 'Once it's out, it doesn't go back in the tube'. Everyone has spats on here occasionally, and there usually forgotten just as quickly. Political fights have a habit of simmering deep and long however. If reviewers want to put out an opinion column that let's them take things 'into the weeds' a bit more, great. Quirky looks and conversation starters are what they are built to provide. Don't like it, don't read it. I'm just wary of a review when it veers from taking on philosophical themes/currents obviously present in the material (which is irrespective of whether one agrees with the opinion or not), to more esoteric 'Looking at this through my ideological lens..' style stuff, and doubly so when that lens is based around liberal/conservative material. The absolute last thing I would want to do is give the impression that taking on undercurrents of shows in reviews was a bad idea. There's a lot of stuff to work with in anime/manga. Taking things (within a review context) into areas of very specific (idealogical) political discourse, especially when not really a component of the original work, is to me, a singularly dicey proposition. |
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