Forum - View topicChicks on Anime [2008-09-30]
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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I went to AnimeIowa a few years ago, and I really enjoyed it. I think there's something about small conventions that retains that community feeling. My home state convention, Nan Desu Kan, has grown since the days I first went, but it's still got that community vibe to it, too. Although I like going to big cons (AX, Otakon) just for the sheer hugeness of it all, and being able to gawk at the giant exhibition halls, and hanging out with all of my friends-- there's still something refreshing about going to small conventions. They just feel friendlier, and I feel like the patrons have better senses of humor. I've noticed this over the years doing the ANN cosplay interviews, too. In Boston, when we did the video interviews for the first time, everyone we talked to was really nice and friendly. At bigger conventions, I'm more likely to run into people giving me attitude, or rudely brushing me off. Where did all the nice people go? |
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konkonsn
 Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
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Um, that'd be the same reason people do stupid stuff at any large gathering, be it parties, sporting events, or concerts (I just read an article about Woodstock '99, coincidently). There are plenty of examples of straight A students going to college and flunking out after many nights of binge drinking and partying. I happen to work at a library, and all you need is two ten-year-old best friends without their parents to turn them into the most annoying kids you've ever dealt with. There are a slew of things behind it all. There's the crowd mentality that as long as other people are doing it, it's fine for me to do it. There's also the bystander effect to consider; people at conventions will do stupid things, but nobody is going to correct them because it's "someone else's problem," thus those acting like idiots are never called on their behavior. Then you have what typically happens when people under authority are released into a setting with little or no authority; they go crazy and test the limits of their new independence. The sex issue is something else entirely, related to gender perceptions in our society and how we view and treat "nerds, freaks, and geeks." I'd like to point out that anime conventions are hardly starting point for this behavior: http://www.metafilter.com/71075/The-Open-Source-Boob-Project But what I'm really getting at (besides the fact that I hate sauerkraut) is that I'm seeing a lot of hate towards teenagers when, really, this is the sort of thing you can find anywhere from any large enough group of people. And also, that society hasn't gone down the moral pot, people in general are still very nice, and that I hold out high hopes for what larger conventions can bring to us. It reminds me of the reaction of "hardcore" fans when their media becomes popular (video gamers, the sci-fi/fantasy community, the anime community itself). Yeah, now you have to weed through a ton of repetitive plots, bad pacing, and terrible romance, but you also have a larger selection and easier access to titles. Also, Psychology Today says that optimists generally have less stress, so look at the bright side. 
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Dahling
Posts: 49 |
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I hope that my local con doesn't turn out that way... Not so local, actually. My first con was Onicon last year, and I plan to go again this year with friends. It seemed pretty great, the only realy rulebreaking I saw was some kids who'd gotten a sword in the Dealer's Room being told to take it out of the center.
Heck, even my mom, who went with me to see what it was like, had a fun time. She's fine with our little group being dropped off next time because she could tell it was a friendly atmosphere. And we only went on Saturday. I could see some of what you're talking about, but there were also some people who obviously just came because they wanted too. Here's hoping this coming Onicon isn't like what you guys've described! |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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Maybe this is just a string of coincidences, and not a trend, but I feel like nerds/geeks are more open with their bodies. Take your Ren Faire-type people, and your anime girls. They're more likely to let you touch them, or display their wares, I think. At this convention, we saw two dealers wearing tight corsets, with their breasts pushed into puddles. I asked if they'd waggle their breasts for our camera, thinking they'd say no. They happily obliged. My mind was kind of blown. Although maybe this is just something that has to do with corsets, because I bet 9 out of 10 women wearing corsets (while not part of a cosplay outfit) will let you touch their breasts. |
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ladyvoid
 Posts: 31 |
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I thought this week's chicks on anime was alright... but I got kinda irritated at the end. I mean, it's not the kids in the conventions that misbehave all of the time. Last year, I went to a con and I behaved pretty well, thank you very much. and I didn't see that many kids misbehaving, if you ask me. It's more of the adults... I saw quite a bit of glomping of innocent people, for instance.
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tasogarenootome
 Posts: 593 |
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The same thing that makes some college freshmen feel the need to hit up every party, wear their pajamas to every class, and have sex with anything that walks. Cons are a weekend unsupervised for a lot of teens who don't know what to do with that freedom, unfortunately. |
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irishninja
 Posts: 344 Location: Seattle-ish |
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Which can be done in an empowering way or a creepy way. When an adult woman wears a corset to show off and emphasize the gifts that genetics have given her, that can be empowering for her. "Look what I have. Yes you may look. If you're really nice, you may even touch. If you're a jerk, take off." On the other hand, I'm not sure the girls displaying their bodies the creepy way realize exactly what they're inviting. I've only ever been to Sakuracon here in Seattle (I think three times now), and the first time I went there was a girl who was maybe in her teen years wearing a sign that said "hug me." Fortunately, Sakuracon has implemented a rule that kids under 18 have to be escorted AT ALL TIMES by a parent or guardian. That certainly turns up the notch on the family-safe-o-meter and goes a long way toward making the younger crowd act like human beings, rather than anime-watching monkeys. Now if we could just get the older-than-teens crowd to act the same way...
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EdoRocksMySocks
 Posts: 56 Location: Kentucky, USA |
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I liked this article lots.
 It gave me a lot of information about the bigger cons. One thing I realized was that it seems a lot of people say big cons are a lot less homey and until I experience one, I guess I won't know, but the one con I do go to which is OMG!!Con in Paducah, Kentucky feels very homey. Last year was my first convention experience and I felt like I could talk to anyone I wanted to and everyone was very nice.
Of course, there was a group of girls that kept running around glomping everyone that was in Naruto cosplay. I think they actually hurt some people because they attacked glomped without permission. That is something you shouldn't do. 
I didn't step into the Rave or the video game room that often. God people need to learn personal hygiene. >.<; *shudder* |
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analogk37
 Posts: 15 |
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I'm wondering if anyone else remembers that Anime convention back in San Jose in '91. Talk about a muted convention. Nothing like cons of today. But at the same time, there were certainly Sci-Fi (ie, Star Trek) cons that grew in size and had some of the same behavioral problems then (late 80's) that the large anime cons of today seem to be running into.
I really appreciate this article now though because I have kids (young teens) who are old enough and may want to go to a con sometime soon. I'll know what to warn them about before they go. Always good to have an idea what to expect before the crazy ladies or guys run at you with the paddles.
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Servant of the Path
 Posts: 90 Location: United States |
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As I've said before I haven't been very plugged into the anime community so I'm not the one to make any definitive statements about this but I've been wondering if it isn't largely a product of the environment. I mean basically you have a lot of people attending who feel that they, or at least their fandom, ostracizes them from society or that it pigeonholes them into a subset of society. Thinking that everyone else around them shares in their weirdness they begin wondering what other otherwise inappropriate behaviors would also be acceptable in an environment in which they don't feel they'll be judged. I mean, it wouldn't surprise me at all if those people were acutely aware of all of the things society at large would not permit them to do and what they might get away with doing within the convention environment. A sort of a sense of relief at being in a place where they're able to feel socially comfortable. |
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Petrea Mitchell
Posts: 438 Location: Near Portland, OR |
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Thank you for that illuminating discussion. I'm used to hearing about anime cons vs. general sf cons from the perspective of people who mainly go to the latter, and are trying to work out how best to reach out to the people who are only attending anime conventions.
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CorwynOfAmber
Posts: 1 |
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As a person who has been attending SF cons for over 34 years (and been to a couple Anime cons in the mix), it is interesting to see that the Anime cons are now dealing with the same issues that SF cons have had to deal with since the late 80's.
As the popularity grows the culture changes as people who are less and less attuned to either fandom or the existing culture 'invade' the con. |
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konkonsn
Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
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Personally,because of all the Gender Studies books and articles I've been reading lately, I would have to say that's probably not the case. My guess is that geek girls are socially told they don't meet the other criteria for attracting men (there was always that long held stereotype that geeky girls are ugly girls). Probably one of the biggest social criteria they don't meet is being "feminine enough" since they're already enjoying what are supposed to be masculine activities such as games, comic books, and general nerd culture. So it might actually be that geeks feel they have to be more sexual to attract others.
I'm going to be a totally Gender Studies and linguistics nut here and say that they're not "inviting" anything. Sorry, but the way our language works, we make gender violence out to be such a women's problem. I mean, you're saying that the girls invite these creeps to be creeps by dressing a certain way. The guys who do this stuff are either a.) already creeps to begin with or b.) have been socialized to believe that, as men, they have a certain privilege to women's bodies, especially if they dress a certain way.
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Elfen12
 Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Yikes... not having been to a con... sentences such as these make me... well not exaclty nervous, but more just flat out scared to go simply becuase i'm not one who tolerates such annoyances lightly. But then again yes, i don't have such an intolerance that i'll go and do what they do, *pubically put on a representation as a pathetic human being by obnoxiously shouting crap so people will notice me*... it's just more that, well, i'd probably leave. I hope the first con i go to someday, isn't anything remotely like this. Man, if that happens, oh, how i'd be mad... well hopefully luck is on myside for my first con...
Those smaller cons sound nice though, but i think i'd have to fly out to one of those, and ... well i'd say it's worth it if i can avoid stuff like Zac and others presented as their feelings towards what went on at the cons. I'd very much enjoy a con like that... but then i guess flying out to a con to get that "community vibe" woudln't exaclty work, seeing as how it's a community vibe. Oh, how this pains my heart. 
-Elfen12- |
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Cait
 Posts: 503 |
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I want to be one of the old school fans and complain about the attitudes and behaviors of the changing anime fandom, particularly at conventions, but unforunately I haven't been "involved" in the fandom nearly long enough that I feel comfortable making such statements. The only convention I've attended has been Connecticon the last three years and that's not an anime-only con (it's anime, sci-fi, web comics, gaming--both table top and video, and really anything else pop-culture related). Over the last three years corporate sponsorships have increased their hold on the con, not that I blame a non-profit organization for reaching out to wherever they can get the funding (I work in non-profit myself), and the big corporations want to market to "families" more than "fans."
I do recall my first year there was a yaoi panel (ID check), but since then the con mostly removed anything adult-oriented. I understand where they're coming from, since younger people are often far less civilized or mature enough to behave responsibly about adult-oriented material, but it generally leaves the mature (adult) fan feeling put out or left out. I can't help but feel like I am too old to hang with these teenagers that are all over the place, but I am too young to be doing the family thing with kids of my own. It's a very weird and awkward place to be in, especially when it seems the conventions themselves are side-stepping the demographic more and more as time goes on (which is weird because we're the folks who have the money to burn and are still at an age where we're willing to burn it on anime...). I have to admit that although I've generally read this article because I feel somewhat obligated as a woman, this week I read through it because I saw Natalie Baan's name. While I like to trace my anime fandom back to the mid-eighties and my rushing home from school to catch the latest episodes of Voltron, the truth is I was never that into it until college and even then it was only a peripheral interest based on what I could catch on TV (back when Adult Swim and Toonami actually aired anime). By the time I made it to the internet (years later and only after becoming interested in slash-fiction), all the fandoms I would have wanted to join were years old and felt forboding, if not somehow ethereal. The first big name I ever bothered to remember was Natalie Baan's with her early X fandom stuff (still waiting for the rest of Sakura & Snow, btw...). I still use her work as a sort of litmus test by which I compare all the other fan fiction I read online (probably not a fair baseline considering the high quality of her writing), but to be perfectly honest I never saw her as someone approachable. To younger fans, even if we are not young in physical years, the older fans, the ones who came before us and helped define the genres we also came to love, are in a league which we never truly feel we could ever even approach, let alone reach. As a result I think there is invariably a fracturing of fandom. The old guard develops one way of looking at the world and the newbies band together and create something totally different, changing the fandom forever (for better or worse). It's often something that the veteran fans seem to look at with a certain degree of, I don't want to call it "distaste," but perhaps "sadness?" A kind of nostalgia that remembers how things "used to be" and wishes they would go back that way, while still knowing that it'll never happen. As a "newer" fan but not a "young" person I often feel a sort of "reverse fondness" for how things were before I got here. I want to see the cons where everyone is friendly and you can strike up a conversation with a stranger and future friend as you happily wait in line for the Masquerade for two hours. I feel like I got here too late and I missed all the good stuff, even though I've been here for years already. |
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