Forum - View topicNEWS: Handley to Be Sentenced for 'Obscene' Manga in January
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ponlork
Posts: 102 |
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It's sad that one could find real images and video of people getting murdered, slaughtered and beheaded on someone's computer and that would be considered fine yet imaginary drawings are considered too obscene? Who are they to determine what's obscene or not. It's funny I bet we can find a lot of currently licensed titles that depict prepubescent characters engaging in sex but have a company change the character's age to 18 and it's ok
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GATSU
Posts: 15337 |
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Gawd, that's a fascist sentence. And you just know an actual rapist will only get half his jail time. That's how they've perverted the justice system when they bust people for marijuana.
Otter: Well, whether or not the rest of us agree with that-since where do you take the argument next-do you really believe he deserves that kind of sentence? DPX: Up until a year ago, you couldn't buy and use sex toys in your own home in in Texas. Oh, and up until '03, gay consenting adults could be arrested for getting it on with each other. I love our Puritanical culture. 
On a related note, be really effing careful about viruses, 'cus certain a-holes now like to use them to insert child porn on your comps. |
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Keith Olberman mentioned George Carlin's poshumous book last might & I might actually have to get it rather than wait a couple yrs for the paperback. The interesting quote was something about leave the kids alone, they'll do just fine. I'd love to know the context. If he meant all this censorship in the name of protecting children from people who would never, ever harm them, then yeah, I agree. Whether you think it's wrong ot not, the only thing that SHOULD matter is does it actually do any harm? The story on Handley was apparently he has a large collection of which 7 volumes is a drop in the bucket which is why he plead out & abandoned the "obscene" stuff. I know 7 volumes out of my collection (around 2300 volumes in English. Maybe a hundred more in Japanese) would indeed be a drop in the bucket. However, I might be the type to fight it longer. Not sure what he actually had to live with. It did sound very intrusive where the court officers monitoring him even were upset by his visiting a regular anime title page to view a promo. How can you judge him a pervert? You don't know this guy. 7 manga? 7? I would think were he such a perv, he'd have way more (I have pretty much every yaoi title that's been licensed in English & that's HUNDREDS of volumes)
Hasn't been for a long time. They have for as long as I've been around reserved the right to search packages. We hear of mail thieves all the time-postal workers who open enveloped they think might have cash in them (like cards). I've supervised a mailman caught with stolen giftcards off his route. I have received mail in a plastic bag allegedly ripped open by their processing machines on at least 3 occasions. And I've received boxes that look as though they've been used for football practice. I've gotten mail late. My daughter's gaming mags that were supposed to be in plastic bags often came weeks late with the bag opened or gone (Bored? Had to read my magazine?) We also read those stories of mailmen who can't keep up or whatever just dumping it in the woods, etc. Where on earth have you gotten the idea the mail is safe?
Having to register as sex offenders for life? Considering there are websites that list these people, they are branded for life. At least no one's mentioned Handly's up for having to register. Here it's every year within 5 days of one's birthday (Happy birthday. Now we're posting your name on thousands of websites so your neighbors can judge you when you're only crime even in the eyes of the court shrink was sharing the computer with your brother so the law couldn't be 100 percent sure you didn't at least peek at more than the one pic you admitted to looking at.) Would you put every person who goes to horror movies on electronic surveillance? They're watching actors representing people being brutally slaughtered &/or raped. In the cases of Freddy Krugar, etc. those actors are often portraying teens being stalked by the title killer, hence virtual children are being harmed. Fry all the horror fans? One or 2 might crack & actually hurt someone. Maybe a child. Oh no! What if someone actually tried to copy Hocus Pocus & turn children into immortality potion? Better ban it. Wasn't there a potion using the fat of a child to allow witches to fly mentioned in Warlock? Better ban it in case someone wants to imitate it. Dorothy's a minor. The Wicked Witch may not have killed her, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Child endangerment is child abuse, is it not? |
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DPX
 Posts: 118 |
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What's really messed up that that harming actual people garners less prison time then possessing images that the gov't deems obscene.
I think it was Florida, but I remember a case where a man raped a kid, and only got one year in prison. Not to mention that there was a case where a woman had sex with a 7 year old. She got 7 years, 6 of those years were a suspended sentence. Hell, even homicide an get you less time. But those are to many cases to list. Yep, gotta love Murka! -__- Well, on the bright side, at least there are several organizations that are dedicated to stopping thought crimes from becoming a complete reality (NCAC). So perhaps there is some dim hope. And who knows, perhaps if he chose to fight this, it may have has a better outcome. laws can't be changed unless someone challenges them, that's why we can have a ridiculous obscenity law that sticks for over thirty freakin' years (fact: this mail law was passed in less than a year from being written.Seriously,look it up.) I just don't want this country to become the UK, or even worse, Australia (seriously, look at their laws.). because then... we're all doomed. EDIT:Also,keep in mind that mail can't be searched without just cause (It's kinda illegal). Virtually all mail sent interstate isn't regularly searched. Customs has the right to search imported packages (that's their just cause), and of course, he got his card pulled. Media Mail is sometimes checked. The "just cause" for checking it is to make sure the mail is "media". As for postal problems. I actually caught my mailer opening my mail. It was years ago. So I reported the problem...lets just say that he isn't a mailman anymore Last edited by DPX on Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MarzGurl
 Posts: 142 Location: San Antonio, Texas |
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Actually, I have a question about this story (not that anyone knows the details). Do we know if these drawings were intended to be pornographic? Or was a child getting sexually abused simply part of the larger story?
It's so hard for me to say what's right or wrong. I mean, black and white, obtaining photos of a real child being sexually abused is wrong. But it becomes so gray when the children aren't even real. I mean, in personal opinion, if I knew someone who had been obtaining drawings of child pornography, whether those children were real or not, I'd be pretty uncomfortable. And, I'm not a mother, but I'm not certain if I'd want that individual near children. Just because of obvious taste reasons. But that individual may not be interested in real children at all, and may have never once attempted anything cruel on a real child. And, if the drawings weren't quite "pornographic" and were just part of a larger story, well, punishing him for that feels just plain wrong. Of course, I guess this wouldn't be news if the drawings weren't considered porn, huh? |
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DPX
Posts: 118 |
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they never released an title names, so no. I also agree with the second bolded statement. Fantasy is just that. And if you truly believe that people will act out on a fantasy is real life, then I think every who may have seen a Saw move be put under surveillance. because, using the same logic, they can be a threat to society. See how flawed the logic is? |
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JJR
Posts: 12 Location: Omaha, NE |
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Just a few catalog reference numbers and IIRC a Gothic Lolita Bible were listed in the paperwork. The Gothi Loli bible was the only title that I had any idea of what the materials were. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Oh, yeah. It might be wrong, somehow. But just by being wrong doesn't exactly mean it's something to be jailed for. It's not like we're all perfect human beings, is it? By now I'm guessing, you must be some kind of jesus christ the second, someone who's never done anything wrong. Did he harm any child by doing that? No. Could he contain himself and not harm any child in case he didn't have this "wrong and unjustifiable" manga? I don't think so. I'm not a fan of lolicon manga and I've never bought anything of the kind, but if I ever get jailed because of crap like this, and for a long time, I'll definitely make sure to do something much worse. |
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Maryohki
 Posts: 526 |
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Lovely. Isn't it nice how the government is so concerned about locking up this guy rather than taking care of people that actually rape real children? I could also rage about how this guy faces more time in prison than people that abuse and brutally murder domesticated animals do, but that would likely get me overheated, so we won't go there.
Also he's forfeiting all the seized goods? Poor guy. 7 computers were part of it even... |
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ayashe
 Posts: 122 |
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No words can describe how infuriating all this is. Now I can't buy any more doujinshi because I could go to jail over it. But if they tried something like that with me they'd have a lot worse crimes to charge me with after I got through with them. And they'd have to drag my Code Geass dj from my cold dead hands before I gave that up.
Well thank you leader of the universe! Maybe they can make you head of the moral police wherever you live so you can decide what's right and wrong for people and drag them from their homes in the dead of night because you don't agree with something. It's because of people like you that this is happening. It's because of people like you that we can get arrested for buying anime and manga! Oh, and I should tell you and any like-minded people that my favorite pairings, while not shota, are yaoi and incest (Britcest to be exact). How do you like that! 
It is better to download instead since if you buy or import something you could get arrested just because someone decided they didn't like what you were buying. You have less chance getting arrested or at least facing serious consequences (like having your name put on the sex offenders list because of a comic) for downloading anime and manga than you do for bringing it into the country. Last edited by ayashe on Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pityless/Envy
 Posts: 101 |
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Ridiculous.
Yes, it's disgusting; yes, it's immoral--but seriously--it's just a fetish. Why does anyone care about what he gets off to? Unless he's actually out there seducing chilren there isn't any reason they should. |
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ayashe
Posts: 122 |
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Well, technically disgusting and immoral are opinions, even if a lot of people may agree with them. A lot of people (I'm not saying you) can't understand that, and can't understand they have no right to force their personal beliefs on others. For instance I think toe/foot fetishes are disgusting, but it's not like it hurts anyone and it has nothing to do with me. An example in the comics world is Watchmen, which I consider to be complete trash, but no ones getting arrested over that. Morality is even more complex since it's a state of mind, can have a lot to do with the way you're raised, and is more intense. Like some religious groups believe it's morally wrong to use bc, where I think it's wrong not to. People love to force their morals on others, especially in instances like this, which is why that poor guy is in this situation and people are deciding whether he's a bad/evil/perverted person or not because of some drawings.
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LondinCalling
Posts: 122 |
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By not revealing the name of the property in question, I see illegal search and seizure and invasion of privacy.
However, I am against child pornography of any type (drawn or otherwise). The fact that he pleaded guilty shows a guilty conscience on his part. He thinks his behavior is 'wrong'. |
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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In regards to the George Carlin thing, if it's anything like the audio CD it references people being completely over protective of children and how he was perfectly fine even though he swam in raw sewage. O can't remember everything exactly cause I haven't heard it in a few months (have it somewhere just haven't listened to it) but it brings up good points about how as a society we're being completely overprotective of our children to the point where it is actually harming them more than protecting them. @Londin He pleaded guilty cause they were making his life a living hell and he couldn't take it anmore. He had extra penalties tacked on to his probation while the trial was underway for visiting ANN... You would probably be surprised at the amount of people who plead guilty when they are not guilty in the least, simply so they can get out of the situation that they are in at the time, just look at some other cases where they go on to question a person for amlost two days straight to try to get a confession out of them -_- |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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We did, we gave the right to a U.S. Customs Agent to search imported packages, so someone doing say a lot of importing is bound to eventually have one of their shipments checked. Normally this is used for things like illegal substances and goods, but in this case fell under obscenity laws because they have to report what they find (just in case they have to do something like say replace it if they break the item in question for example.) The manga in question where enough to set-off alarm and would be justifiable cause for search, Handley plead guilty, end of discussion really. Definition of Obscene in a legal sense, as what you think of obscene and doesn't fall under obscene says differently as "A Picture" can be literally anything, up to and including anime, manga, cartoons, paintings..... http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/o002.htm So in the end it's not me or you that defines obscenity (although we contribute to it.) but society as a whole, as what was obscene/not obscene 100 years ago could be considered not obscene or obscene by today's standards. So the one hard definition your seeking doesn't exist. |
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