Forum - View topicThe X Button - Excused Absences
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Jefferson Taylor
 Posts: 6 |
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Discovered Umehara Kawase with the PSOne version, emulated on the PSP. A highly engaging portable game. Recommended!
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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If thats true, then that would be the exact reason why. Even recent Atelier games haven't sold over 20k, so theres no way a super niche 2d fighter would do twice what Atelier sells. |
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Barbobot
 Posts: 460 |
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He's a person who apparently has experience with internet video production. Regardless of what his videos are generally of, he probably has some grasp of what this type of thing costs and I don't really see a reason to doubt his response. |
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GWOtaku
 Posts: 678 |
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But again, as I said before...it's not about singling out Mario but rather the assertion that it set a standard on the damsel trope that the industry neglected to deviate from for much too long. The video cannot be engaged well unless this point is understood. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Oh, I don't know. I think you do a good job portraying your supposed neutrality on the subject all on your own. Are you sure I was referring to you? Please, tell me more on how you know me so well and my reasons for funding Sarkeesian's kickstarter. I'd love to hear more of your unbiased opinion on the matter. Actually, nah. I really don't care. |
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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None of this is a substantive criticism or factual statement. It's a lot of empty condemnation and unkind adjectives. Do you know anything about video production and budgeting? If you do, then you should probably actually make a reasonable case, otherwise I'm pretty sure that you're just weaseling around to try to make various inconveniences 'not count' rather than actually rebutting or engaging them in a meaningful way. That's pretty much your standard operating procedure. Hard work at rhetorically undermining and delegitimzing challenges to what increasingly seems like a backwards and unpleasant perspective on gender abounds, but none seems devoted to real understanding, sincere consideration or even a thimbleful of empathy. Oh, I do wonder if perhaps we who donated let our enthusiasm for spiting the awful people who attacked her, who created their own monster, get ahead of our senses in donating and would appreciate a thorough accounting, although I'm not demanding that she meet GAAP standards or anything, of how the money has been spent. However, I don't as yet see much reason to panic and if I've flipped a symbolic bird at some bros and reactionary neckbeards, then I've gotten my money's worth! Besides, the real fraudsters, intellectually and financially, are the boys of Tropes Vs. Men in videogames. Or is Gameranx a terrible site and Stephen Beirne history's greatest monster so WAAAHH WAAAHH WAAAAHH NANANANANANA I CAN'T HEAR YOU! |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Good on her for making these videos. We should be talking about this kind of thing. Although I'll be a lot more interested to hear about more modern games. While it is interesting from a historic perspective, I'm not sure it is especially meaningful looking forward to examine the tropes in games dating back to the 80s and 90s. The discussion on Zelda was more interesting though. Honestly, I feel like Zelda games have done pretty well on average in their modern incarnations. Sheik and Tetra are pretty awesome. So was Midna (who sadly doesn't get a mention here). And I thought TP Zelda was done at least reasonably well. Impa has almost always been a strong character too.
I don't at all like this attitude that having an otherwise strong female character get captured or something somehow "disempowers" them. I mean, I get the argument behind it that by showing a powerful woman and then taking that power away can in fact be a negative, and in some cases I think that's valid. But I also think people are too quick to jump to that conclusion and to do so is so needlessly pessimistic. It manage to turn what should often be viewed as positive (if imperfect) progress into something entirely negative which is disappointing and rather discouraging to progress. (EDIT: I'm not sure if this is exactly what she was saying. I don't want to put words in her mouth. I've heard this sentiment expressed before though and thought it was worth commenting on). Ultimately, the point maybe missed here is that in all those cases, the "damsel" is not the hero. And I think that's okay in a number of those instances. There are a lot of criticisms of female characters that I'm afraid have less to do with gender issues per se and more to do with female characters always being the side character and not the hero. Which again is not inherently a bad thing. It is a trend though and that is what needs to be corrected. But the trend we need to correct is, more than anything else, that the female is never the main character (and to be fair, she does sorta mention this but only super briefly). There's absolutely room to improve how female side characters are portrayed too but the lack of female heroes is really the most glaring one to me.
No...that was just what all the misogynistic douchebags tried to pretend it was about after the fact to justify their outrage. The fact is that she only asked for a few thousand dollars. She eventually received way more than that but the giant shitstorm of rage started long before (in fact, all that publicity and bile was, ironically, the reason for her being flooded with donations).
I actually agree with this completely. It seems like a reasonable response to the video. Perhaps if you'd just chill the hell out and say this initially, instead of immediately having a giant shit fit and starting up with this same tired and factually baseless bullshit where you attempt to undermine her by accusing her of trying to scam money or something...then people might actually be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise though, it is pretty tough to view you as anything but another disingenuous misogynist trying to disguise his own knee jerk outrage as something more socially acceptable. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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I really really REALLY didn't want to get involved in this but I'll add my two cents then leave. Her arguments are for old games of the past when making stories was hard due to limitations outside of text-based rpgs "the 8bit-16bit era of gaming" aside from dinosaur planet. There are a lot of games that get scrapped due to next console gens and sadly this is one them. I myself am a huge, I mean huge castlevania fan and did you know they there was a female Belmont in a different time-line for the game boy called castlevania legends? Her name is Sonia Belmont and defeated Dracula with the help of alucard, she also supposedly has a child with him. Now konami was planing on bringing her back for a dream-cast game dubbed castlevania resurrection. Sadly we all know the dream-cast bit the dust so the game was scrapped. There is e3 trailers, demos and in magazine articles look it up. This still urks me because she was an interesting character, but I don't find it sexist they have forgotten about her. Just sad, there is even a re-boot now and they could use her. Rant aside on the main topic the main problem I have is the fact she has all feedback, comments disabled and will not comment on her own video. Listen I don't agree with some things she said but if you are going to get a point of view across then at least engage your disputers head-on, don't hide from them. Yes the internet can be a SCARY place but you get that with trolls/flaming. I'm not going to say anymore on this because I really can't, I'm not female so I don't know how it feels. Sonia Belmont, In memory of thee 
Last edited by Cecilthedarkknight_234 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:34 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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I don't think this is a good idea--all it does is force girl gamers into a ghetto (because that's what this idea is) instead of working to stamp put anti-female attitudes in the gaming community. What exactly will be accomplished by ghettoing girl gamers? |
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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Yeah I'm not really following you here. All I know is this lady - intentionally or not - started a massive internet drama and walked away being defiantly hailed as a saint by half the video game blogosphere and with a whole bunch of money in her pocket. So naturally, yes, I'm skeptical. I guess this makes me an enemy of all women or something? I don't get it. And I... don't know anything about you that you haven't written in this thread. When did I suggest otherwise? And as I explained in my previous post, I can tell that you were responding to me because you specifically alluded to some of my word choices and indirectly addressed some of my points. |
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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I actually agree completely with the first three paragraphs here, except that as someone having come onboard this massive flame war on the ass-end of it I can honestly say that the money thing is what made me suspicious - well, that and the fact that people were swarming to defend Sarkeesian as some kind of messianic figure above any sort of criticism. I first heard about it as "that lady who got $160,000 to make a Youtube video", and that's been the lasting impression. I can't speak to what anyone else thinks about all this and why, though! In my first post in this thread I addressed the funding of the Sarkeesian video and the video's actual content in separate paragraphs. There was a reason for this! Now, if it were possible to have a nuanced discussion about this topic in the first place - maybe nobody would be jumping to conclusions about anybody. It'd be especially cool if people's opinions on Anita Sarkeesian and her Kickstarter project were not automatically taken to be interchangeable with their opinions on women/feminism. All I'm getting out of these posts accusing me of sexism/misogyny on account of my skepticism about Sarkeesian is that questioning Sarkeesian in any way is tantamount to misogyny, and if there's nothing overtly misogynistic in my posts then I must be thinking misogynistic thoughts while I write them, because if I were not a foaming-at-the-mouth misogynist I would love Anita Sarkeesian and everything she does. As I have said I don't even know how many times now, all I know about Anita Sarkeesian is that she has profited considerably - in terms of both money and reputation - solely off of this web drama. I don't know whether this was her intent or not - I know nothing about Sarkeesian's character from which I could make that kind of judgment! - but in a world, medium and industry where hacks and attention whores are a dime a dozen, I really don't think it's unreasonable to be suspicious. Last edited by gatotsu911 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Ms. Sarkeesian didn't start anything except a kickstarter to fund a series about how women are portrayed in video games. It was certain slimy segments of the internet who took exception to it and caused the ruckus, which drew in people to defend her and her work and give her money just to spite the naysayers.
If she walked away a saint it is only because anyone would look good compared to the slimeballs misogynists out there. And she only got so much money because of said slimeballs making this into such an issue in the first place, so blame them for the six-figure sum raised, not her. I watched the first episode. It didn't wow me but I thought it raised some good points, and I liked how many first-hand sources she used. I look forward to the other parts. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I never thought I'd say "dtm42 made the most reasonable post in the thread" but hey, the proof's right here. |
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gatotsu911
Posts: 457 Location: US of East Coast |
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But see, "X is bad, therefore not-X/anti-X is good" is a really common ideological fallacy that can be and frequently is heavily exploited, and that's what I'm afraid might be going on here. Harping on douchebag Internet misogynists is so easy and obvious it shouldn't even be necessary, but undeservedly propping up someone simply because they are perceived as a victim or antithesis of something far worse is a trap that even smart and well-meaning people can fall into, and clever groups and individuals can exploit such people based on this. I'm not even saying that's necessarily what happened here, just that that's what I'm wary of. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You realize this is the attitude that leads to people just "accepting" that every single comments section is chock-a-block with hideous racism and misogyny, right? That's the way it is, after all! If you're surprised by it you're a naive idiot, if you try and do anything about it you're a fool who can't stop the way things are. Just shut up and accept it because hey son, this is the internet. At what point do people who rightfully hate that sh*t actually try and do something about it rather than just accepting it as the status quo? The internet is so full of the worst parts of the human id it's ridiculous, and yet if you're not cool with that and not just passively accepting of the godawful crap that people vomit somehow you're the unbelievable moron. |
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