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REVIEW: Witch Hunter Robin DVD


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LightningCount



Joined: 04 Mar 2018
Posts: 232
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Spoofer wrote:
LightningCount wrote:
I rewatched the early episodes fairly recently on DVD...I don't recall her exactly sticking her nose up in the air and saying something "vain" in terms of "I think they make me look ugly." What I remember watching the early episodes was that she felt insulted and insecure, stating that she should know her own body and powers better than others. She may also not have liked the look, but she didn't want the burden and to admit she was wrong, above all else. That is a form of vanity, but I didn't personally find it to be out of character, or annoying, or excessively "emo," either. She challenges her older co-workers about all sorts of matters, correctly and incorrectly. We're talking about someone with a lot of self-confidence in her powers (justified or not), and someone who is rather young and naive in many ways. She grew up in a pretty isolated situation to begin with, and her social awkwardness shows up many a time, like when she deals with Michael early on and won't stop talking out loud. So, when her confidence gets tested, like many young people, she's going to try to process it, and may become defensive as a part of that. She's also in a new country with new people; as she's trying to adjust, she's not going to exactly be happy about finding she can't even trust her own abilities. Personally, I liked that there were such flawed characters.


It's been 15 years, but I'll do my best to remember my impressions. But that is indeed the definition of vain I'm accusing her of exhibiting. Granted, the writing was on the wall with this show, in terms of how emo/brooding it was aiming to be.

By the 4th episode, she's already endangered the mission, herself, and her team quite a few times due to her poor aim. When her partner deduces the problem, and kindly offers her the solution, she rejects his appraisal and his solution, denying the evidence right before her face, as it was plainly evident both times she held the glasses up that they improved her vision. In the episode's climax, she foolishly attempts to engage in battle with her bad vision yet again, until she's pinned down by a constant barrage of pressure and has no other choice but to rely upon them. I'll also point out that even though it's clearly established her vision is subpar in general (not just when she's using her power), for the remainder of the series she only dons them to utilize her powers, rejecting the aid they'd provide to her daily life. A stylistic choice by the animators to represent her battle look, no doubt, but it becomes a reality for the character nonetheless.

(The point is probably moot regardless, since the animation's stylistic choices don't usually depict her as peering through the glasses during battle to begin with...)

So why does she spend a good chunk of her life denying she has a vision problem? Why does she continue to reject it when Amon presents the evidence to her? Why does she wait until she has no other choice but to rely upon them? Again, my take is vanity. She doesn't want to admit that there's something about her which is subpar/deficient. Even something as run of the mill as requiring glasses. She struggles to concede that she needs to rely on assistance, especially when the suggestion comes from her partner, so she instead spends her life holding herself back, refusing to take responsibility and to take any steps in order to overcome the shortcoming. We spend 3~4 episodes wondering what's holding her back, only to find out that it's her own stubborn refusal to assess and improve herself. The sort of thing that many find obnoxious about stereotypical emo teenagers wallowing in their own self-pity in general.

There may also be a parallel in denying the truth of her vision to denying her existence and role as a witch, which again presents her as a rather weak person unable to assess and take responsibility for herself, and define who she is and wants to be. Which is a valid exploration for a sullen teenager, but...

... the problem is, the landscape of US anime at the time had us all catching up via DVD and TV (and fansubs) on shows like Evangelion, Bebop, FLCL, Lain, Haibane Renmei, Wolf's Rain, Now and Then Here and There, even stuff like X, and dozens more. Shinji was dealing with incredibly complex issues of self-worth and was struggling to define himself as a worthy individual, while being forced to get in the robot over and over. Spike had half his gaze fixated on the past, while unable to live and find meaning in the present. Naota was stuck in the turbulence between childhood and adulthood while anyone and everyone around him was trying to exert their own definitions upon him. Etc. Every other show was dealing with far weightier concepts and depicting them in such unique, novel, and exciting ways, and then there's Robin who is sulking and brooding over something as petty as acknowledging that she has to wear glasses. It's beyond trite compared to the prevailing standards of the time (even with many other B and C-tier shows), and I believe this to be a large reason why this show was quickly forgotten.

And yeah, perhaps it's my own fault for going into a show that so fully encapsulated that teen emo subculture, and the fact that I had long passed that age of my life by the time Robin hit, and was already on my way to adulthood where accepting one's limitations and promptly dealing with them becomes a necessity. I had no desire to move backwards. Whereas, for most of the shows I listed above, their subject matter and the finesse in which they were executed have no expiration date.


You've done an excellent job explaining your position and experiences, and I get it. But I will say that everyone's going to have different tastes. I just want to elaborate on my thoughts as you did, and then call it a day and have new viewers experience it for what it is, for better or worse. It's probably been about 6-10 years since I've watched all of it back to front, enjoying it more each time, but I've seen chunks of it since.

Speaking personally, contemporary characters of the era like Shinji or Noata felt like avatars to a central theme to me, as their limiting complexes were at the center of their shows, and their inability to develop more fully was kind of grating to me. RahXephon did human development of this sort more effectively than Evangelion, in my opinion (though one could make the argument that Evangelion had a different view about the nature of humanity...)

Anyway, in Witch Hunter Robin, it's worth noting that Robin's "emo" behavior is not the central theme. And overall, unlike Evangelion, this isn't a show about teens (or arrested development) despite featuring some. I found it to be much more an ensemble show whereby Robin is an entrance point for outsiders, and if there is a central theme, it's about persecution and acceptance. Does the show fully pay off? No. Is the show messy? Definitely. Does the show stand out from the crowd to this day? Yes.

Robin arrives in Japan and is immediately persecuted through suspicion of her powers and foreign presence, differing views about how to hunt witches, perceived inexperience, and controversial role as a replacement. Robin is eager to prove herself and her powers, even as some of her teammates push her away at first, especially her partner, Amon. She grew up as a servant of humanity as a nun and hunter, and she wants to be useful, despite her own youthful character flaws of wanting to do it her way. She believes witches are to be eliminated, as she was taught, whereas STN-J wants them to be captured. At the same time, she butts in with trying to help her new co-workers emotionally at various points.

Moreover, weighing on her thought process and emotions, is the fact that spoiler[she was sent to Japan on a secret investigative mission that may or may not reflect negatively on her new teammates that she cares about]. The first section of the series is spent on largely stand-alone cases for a reason. Like, say, The Big-O, they present to you how the world and its characters function, and set up thematic elements, before the table gets tipped over. One after the next, we meet witches who are hunted. Many, as the reviewer states, use their powers for personal gain, but that shows the central conflict, because there is a very uncomfortable element that "rotten apples spoil the bunch." If so many people are listed in STN-J's registry, what we see is really a fraction of the witch population, but again, we are seeing things from the organization that is supposed to bring justice in such terrible cases, so that makes sense. Even so, we are shown a number of tragic cases with gray areas, like, spoiler[ the homeless man's story in episode 5, the doctor's story in episode 8, the father-son reunion of episode 10, and the episode with the family that gets taken from their own home.]

What's interesting is that, through it all, we are given a look at everyday life for the characters. The way that Karasuma takes the time to hang out and talk with Robin in the same episode 4 that you mentioned, faking Robin out that she is reading her mind when she's just trying to help her see things for herself, is such a genuine human interaction not seen in everyday anime. And these characters are all gradually shown to be more than they seem. spoiler[Michael may seem like he's up on everything, but he's trapped in his life and is seen as something of an accessory to people in the STN-J, and we see Robin opening up to him after her naive failings, sharing a quiet moment with him with donuts.] (Again, the quiet moments in this series are great, evoking that time to express the humanity of characters that shows like Cowboy Bebop do in the course of the show's missions.) spoiler[Karasuma is also much less secure than she seems once she has to take over with a more limited crew when Amon and Robin leave. Dojima acts like a bored, spoiled ditz, but is trying to cover for her own secret mission. Amon, I explained his familial and corporate concerns in an earlier post that cause his brooding distance. Sakaki is the rookie who wants to prove himself and doesn't want to be leapfrogged by someone newer than him. Then you've got characters like Nagira, who wants to help bridge the gap between humans and witches, whom Amon entrusts Robin with just as she's developing into a more independent-minded individual who is going to take it upon herself to become a bridge herself.]

Admittedly, not each one of these characters has a huge arc, but it's a lot more than average, and they don't need to have a massive arc because of how they interact with each other to emphasize the coming together of people vs. the persecution of people. The meditative ritual through-line of visiting Harry's place is yet another example of this. The more recent Psycho-Pass was so over the top, and so pretentious (and many times seemingly superficial) with its metaphors and references, that I felt it missed the mark compared to Witch Hunter Robin. Ghost in the Shell: SAC has a lot of those same issues, burying its humanity too often. (Though, perhaps that's what's thematically different about those shows intentionally, and why WHR resonates with me--it celebrates humanity and its emotions in the end, wearing them on its sleeves.)

Regarding the glasses, I can see your issue with it, though I will say this: When you're near-sighted, you don't always wear your glasses. Long-term, it's not vanity, it's just inconvenience, because you don't need them except for very precise activities. And culturally, there was a time when glasses were a bigger stigma than they are today, so we can't say for sure where Robin's coming from. It's such a small point in the series, just emphasizing her immaturity and stubbornness coming from such a ritualized life overseas, that it doesn't really bother me. Unlike Shinji in Evangelion, this isn't a series about psychological complexes. But speaking of vanity, the way Re-L is handled in Ergo-Proxy--a distant anime cousin to Witch Hunter Robin--was a lot more grating, in my opinion.

Regarding spoiler[the raid on the office...the shocking story shift stands out to me as memorable. It's shock value, yes, so it's a bit cheap. But Sakaki remains injured from it, and they do a time skip that's gradually explained, otherwise Robin wouldn't be settled into her new life with the lawyer Nagira, and the others wouldn't be on their feet. In the end, I personally like it. There are still consequences to it in terms of the team dynamic and story progression, and it forces the viewer to learn what's going on versus spelling it all out right away. I frankly love this twist in the face of how the story was moving and only subtly evolving up to this point in the macro sense. It could have been handled with a bit more finesse, but it serves its purpose. EDIT: And really, Cowboy Bebop is guilty of the same sort of tactics, like episode 5, when Spike gets blown out of a multi-story window (after amazingly having the clarity of mind to leave a grenade behind him) with no on-camera explanation as to how he survived and just ended up with a lot of bandages only in a time skip.]

So, yeah, it's not perfect, and it's not grand, but this show makes time for its characters with engaging mysteries in what is a very compelling atmosphere with stylish art design from head to toe that visually feels more true-to-life than, say, something like FLCL. It uses some shortcuts in animation that become more obvious the more I watch it, but it still is very well directed cinematically. In spite of its shortcomings, it remains one of my favorite anime, and I enjoy watching it as small vignettes or as an overall narrative. There are still some aspects of it I am admittedly trying to parse out, a testament to its messiness, but those kind of quirks are something I enjoy, as it forces critical thinking from the viewer. I've found that Cowboy Bebop has a lot of that same messiness when you try to parse all of its backstory together--it's just that the details of those are less relied upon by that story.

It's interesting that you brought up Wolf's Rain, because, while grander on the whole, that is a series that I often think of when I think of Witch Hunter Robin, in terms of its tone and how messy it is, yet how it still leaves a notable impression. For what it's worth, there's an anime continuum in the 2000s for me, on which sits, in no particular order, Witch Hunter Robin, Wolf's Rain, Death Note, Monster, Ergo Proxy, Ghost in the Shell: SAC. They're all very different, mind you, but they are each related in my mind in their approach somehow. So, that's all I've got to say on this subject. I can see how WHR might not be enjoyed, but I've expressed here why I enjoy it, and why others may enjoy it. It's definitely not, in my mind, because it tries to be some sort of "emo-goth catharsis," as you seem to suggest, no offense. That thought never once crossed my mind while watching it. If anything, it's more like watching the X-Files, but with more style and a bit more naturalistic pure human emotion.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:11 pm Reply with quote
LightningCount wrote:
Regarding the glasses, I can see your issue with it, though I will say this: When you're near-sighted, you don't always wear your glasses. Long-term, it's not vanity, it's just inconvenience, because you don't need them except for very precise activities. And culturally, there was a time when glasses were a bigger stigma than they are today, so we can't say for sure where Robin's coming from. It's such a small point in the series, just emphasizing her immaturity and stubbornness coming from such a ritualized life overseas, that it doesn't really bother me.

Yeah, nothing about Robin's behavior with her glasses is unrealistic in the slightest. I've had prescription glasses since I was in 5th grade but have never worn them full-time. (I only actually need then for driving or reading/watching at a distance.) And if she's being petulant about using them, well, she is still 15. . .
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Spoofer



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:46 pm Reply with quote
Well, we'll agree to disagree about her glasses, haha. Again, my argument wasn't that it was unrealistic writing, only that it was personally-offputting characterization. This is quibbling over semantics and in no way represents the crux of my issue with the matter, but I'm also near-sighted and only wear glasses/contacts when I need to see long distance or want to appreciate nature hikes and such as well. But being near-sighted means I see perfectly fine up close. Stubborn Aesthetics twice presented that Robin's vision was quite subpar even up close, along with her issues at distance.



Again, this is a trivial debate, and I've already acknowledged that the reasons why she typically only wears them during battle is quite likely due simply to the show's choice of aesthetic.

Anyway, I do wholly disagree about the comparisons between the STN-J headquarter shootout and Spike's first encounter with Vicious, as the intent and execution of both scenes are wildly different.

spoiler[Spike's the star of the show, it was only episode 5, and there really wasn't anything in the episode that was foreshadowing that he was genuinely about to die. A couple of flesh wounds and being thrown out windows often aren't a big deal in this medium. Green Bird had a contemplative and uplifting tone compared to say, the finality found in The Real Folk Blues' reprise See You Space Cowboy, or obviously Blue. And like 5 seconds after Green Bird finishes, the episode's coda reveals that Spike has survived, and ends on an intentional reset back to the show's more whimsical humor and standard form in order to ease us down from the built up tension of the episode and better transition into the next. Spike's fully recovered by the next episode because the series is episodic with indeterminate stretches of time between stories.

In no way was the purpose of the episode or that final sequence meant to trick us into thinking Spike was genuinely at risk of dying so early on, and instead the episode was crafted in order to depict the weight and seriousness of Spike's past, the contrasting trajectories he and Vicious undertook from their similar origins, and that they were inexorably linked as the only two who per the narrative could inflict serious harm and pain to the other (well, along with Julia, obviously). It's an excellent episode and is certainly one of the most respected in the entire medium.]


spoiler[Which is entirely different from WHR's episode halfway+ through the series where it intentionally depicts visceral slaughter of a much more disposable secondary cast so as to make us believe they were being killed, and ends on Amon's melodramatic sacrifice and Robin in tears. The entire structure of the episode was to get the audience to believe these secondary characters were being tragically sacrificed, where the audience would easily buy into it thinking it would serve as a stark turning point in the show going forward (it still was regardless, IIRC).

It's a week later (in terms of airdates) where we see that the characters are all inexplicably back at their posts, with the only casualty being a mere broken leg, that we realize they're not dead, and are forced to wait half the episode until the throwaway explanation (plastic bullets) is exposited. An explanation which, again, does not even begin to make sense given the devastation we witnessed in the previous episode. Fully automatic rifles absolutely blasting the hell out of these characters, with bloodied bullet holes (with both entry and exit wounds...), lifeless bodies, and demolished surroundings on full display. An alternate throwaway line about how incredibly lucky it might've been if none of the wounds were fatal and everyone had miraculously survived, without the plastic bullet nonsense, would have been more believable and honest writing.

It was a blatantly artificial and extraordinarily poorly-implemented bait and switch to drum up a level of drama, tension, and consequences that the writers weren't willing to fully commit to. I'm not denying that it did have consequences to the narrative, but that doesn't excuse the way in which it was executed.]


The show has worth and merit for those that appreciate it, but yeah, sadly it just wasn't for me. And I did truly want to like it. But anyway, I think we've all made our cases at this point, and yeah, hopefully it won't distract new viewers or what not from judging it on their own. Anime smile;;
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