Forum - View topicINTEREST: Statistician Midori Makita Calculates Percentage of Consensual Sex in Erotic Manga
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Kadmos1
 Posts: 13572 Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP |
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OK, having used ANN since 5/2005, I can honestly say this is 1 of the more unique headlines. Wonder when they will make the isekai light novel of this story.
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deviljho0001
Posts: 42 |
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The "erotic manga" in this article means Doujinshi, which mostly means porn book you find in hentai site. |
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gamegodtre
Posts: 98 |
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cant speak for other loli monthly collections but most of the artists in Lo have the girls raping the men, Noise, Ryo maeshima,chiguchi miri or the occasional Satsuki itsuka for example others like gengorou and ookami uo have them selling themselves for money to buy clothing or gotcha items i mean Awaji Himeji is still publishing to Lo so men raping is def in there as that is all he draws but for the most part Lo is pretty vanilla. unlike hit or moog. as for the missing percentages its for the stuff he couldnt classify either way as rape or consensual as mentioned on sankakucomplex oh let me clear up another thing, most Loli in lo is 6th grader with older brother of undefined age but ruffly 16-22 not 50 year old men, unless they are raping in which case age is all over the board and as for the prostitution stories the same can be said. Lo usually doesnt mention age specifically but mentions grade in school I've seen Lo have 8th grade but the norm is 6th. additional clarification you cant commit statitory rape in japan unless the girl is under 13 |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18230 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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While it's only classified as statutory rape at under age 13, most (all?) prefectures and municipalities in Japan have much higher age standards for legal sexual relations, marriage without parental consent, and selling sex-related paraphernalia. So that oft-quoted age is misleading on what is and isn't legal. |
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Cam0
 Posts: 4890 |
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I feel like this misconception about Japan's age of consent has been debunked so many times that I don't quite understand how it always resurfaces.
Also this statement seems to be directly at odds with the percentages given in the article. How can the percentage of non-consensual porn be at 5% if most of the artist in the magazine put rape in there? |
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Sahmbahdeh
Posts: 712 |
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I don't see why you'd think that. It explicitly said that intimidation or coercion counted as non-consensual for the purposes of this study, and he used the Japanese legal code as a basis. So I'm pretty sure his numbers are including things like blackmail. Unless he explicitly says otherwise, the assumption should be that it does. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2396 |
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This brings up an unaddressed question about whether this only applies to the girls, or if "reverse rape" (the category that indicates rape initiated by the female in a het dynamic) is included. By assumption, I'd say both are included, but in general, it's easy to forget the story isn't consensual when the dominated perspective comes from the side of the audience, who sought out the story because they wanted it.
Lol What the heck? "Doujinshi" doesn't mean "porn book". "Doujin" is a work or person making a work which is self-published or sold directly, not through a licensed publisher. The "shi" just means it's a printed work. Doujinshi can be non-sexual (and a lot are non-sexual, but those rarely interest anyone on the internet) and the term has nothing to do with where you can find it.
You're thinking ecchi manga. These are straight up porn manga, which often skip all the formalities and set up something quick and easy to get the sex rolling. That said, some adult-oriented manga outside the porn section also include sex, with more focus on story, and in those cases, it's usually just treated as a part of natural relationship-building or some sort of drama in the story. Female-targeted adult manga in this regard seem to have less ecchi, but way more sex per volume, I've noticed.
I believe it's very, very unlikely that you will find statistical correlation to real situations. Even ignoring what studies are out there that suggest fictional works rarely influence people to re-enact actions in real life, these manga are often targeting a very niche group of people in Japan. Without generalizing too much, quite a bit of the stereotypical audience is either a virgin or just sexually frustrated (due to less sex/good sex in their current life). Besides, erotic manga tend to characterize fetishes most of the time. You can find a decent number of people who have fetishes that are satistically unusual, fantastical, illegal to enact in real life, or sometimes impossible--for instance, the fetish to want to be the subject rape is more common than you'd think, but it's definitively impossible to consent to being raped, so of course no one wants that in real life. -------- As for my personal take, I'm a collector of the tankouban releases of my favorite of these magazines' artists, and for those who care about my interests, spoiler[I'm one of those I mentioned who like non-consensual sex from the perspective of the dominated, regardless of gender.] I can understand why all but the most fake-looking live action porn might be considered harmful (to actors/actresses or audiences), but I find the idea that non-consensual sex in a fictional publication is cause for concern to be completely foreign to me. That said, I love these kinds of statistics from a purely analytical perspective. I can't imagine how much work goes into this kind of data collection. This is the market publication side, though. I wonder how the doujinshi side fares, since doujinshi are often the artist drawing whatever the heck they want and projecting onto existing characters they're fond of rather than hitting a quota in a magazine. |
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omoikane
Posts: 494 |
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I like this article. Both it exposes a lot of people whose notion of porn in manga as "doujinshi' to actual porn manga (which I guess they don't know?), and it talks about doing studies that go across compartmentalization of modern life in which said compartmentalization is being crossed.
A few other notes: Nobody seems to mention the in-depth info from the article about maid eromanga power dynamics. I suspect this is also in play in some other fetish categories (like LO) so the consensual stats is not particularly meaningful without more in depth analysis. Non-consensual sex is in itself a fetish category (or categories). The percentage break down is also informative of the primary audience for these magazines, who are looking not for "edgy" value but more typical reasons why anyone would buy porn (at least, in a cis-male oriented kind of mode). |
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gamegodtre
Posts: 98 |
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You get non rape offenses However, many prefectures also have local "corruption of minors" or "obscenity statutes" (淫行条例) which raise the de-facto age of consent to 16-18, unless they are in a "sincere romantic relationship" https://www.ageofconsent.net/world/japan |
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gamegodtre
Posts: 98 |
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Talk about the rape that is in lo, that most of the time it is the girl raping the man so of that 5 percent i give 3 to girls raping men. |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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A couple of thoughts:
First, regarding alcohol or drugs. I find it odd that the writer automatically considered the presence of alcohol/drugs to be a case of non-consent. Of course we all know that both of those things can be used to facilitate rape, but just because alcohol is involved does not necessarily mean a lack of consent--in a practical sense, anyway. It's entirely possible to drink without over-indulging to the point of losing ones inhibitions. And plenty of couples might drink or use drugs specifically for the point of enhancing the mood. Consider how many monogamous couples in the real world might go to a nice restaurant, have some drinks with dinner, and then go back home for some physical intimacy with the whole sequence of events being well understood beforehand. If a married couple drinks wine out on a date for their anniversary and then goes home for a romp between the sheets is that automatically non-consentual? Second, this raises a question that I've been pondering for years. It seems that anime and manga tend to fall into either of two categories: either there is no sex at all (the vast majority of anime), or you have the opposite: full-on "Hentai" where there is little, if any, plot and the sex is the whole point of the show. There seems to be very little middle ground. That seems odd to me, as I think that many people, myself included, would appreciate a show with a solid story, well-developed characters, and poignant themes that might show a graphic sex scene now and then but doesn't become full-on porn. There are a handful of titles that might involve a "sex scene" but it tends to be either implied or entirely off-screen. For example, KareKano, or Trigun. It seems odd to me that shows which can stand on their own merits tend to never include sex scenes, while those that do tend to be entirely based around the sex and have little else to offer. I suppose this is where doujinshi comes in? You read/watch the main title for the story, and if you want to see your favorite characters get intimate then you read the doujin? |
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Juno016
Posts: 2396 |
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1) I think it's talking about consent only being given after being flat-faced drunk and taken advantage of, which I've definitely read in eromanga. It's possible the missing numbers could include that which isn't obvious. 2) I mentioned above that there are genres of manga that have a lot of sex while not straying from the story (often enhancing it, and sometimes being graphic and showing the sex as explicitely as eromanga). Eromanga artist Cuvie has a few multi-volume manga published in non-eromanga magazines like this, and for women, sex is a very common element in Josei manga. If you're looking for straight up eromanga with good writing (or at the very least, entertaining writing), I recomment someone like Yukimi (doujin circle name "enuma elish"). His erodoujinshi and manga have dynamic art and his fan works keep characters consistent with their official personalities while throwing them in hilarious situations strictly for fun, meaning the sex isn't all that keeps you turning the page. My faves aside, you can search for "hentai manga with plot" and find lots of suggestions, too. |
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AkumaChef
Posts: 821 |
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Yeah, that would be totally reasonable, but the way the article was written it implies that the moment any alcohol is involved then it's necessarily non-consensual, rather than being limited to paradigm cases of a character being completely drunk, or one character deliberately plying another with alcohol or drugs with the intent of raping them.
Nice. I don't read too much manga these days, but it's good to hear that it exists. I wasn't so much looking for it as I was commenting on a realization that I had, mainly having to do with anime. You're right about the Josei manga angle, I do remember coming across some of that years ago when had more time to read manga. But for anime it seems to fall to either of two extremes: there's either no explicit sexual content save for fanservice and innuendo, or it's full-on hentai, with very little middle ground between the two. I wasn't even looking for programs that were mostly explicit--quite the opposite, actually. It's more like I found the explicit aspect to be strangely lacking from many shows. I suspect it comes down to the odd inconsistencies of TV broadcast rules and video ratings. Last edited by AkumaChef on Wed May 08, 2019 8:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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FilthyCasual
Posts: 2223 |
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And then there's Tokyo Ghoul.
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manapear
Posts: 1526 |
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I've been enjoying my share of official, magazine publications and doujin stuff more recently, and split kind of well between male and female artists, and different demographics (bl/mlm, gl/wlw, het, etc).
I do like that there is more consent in ero stuff, but where (and why) is also so important. It is not lost on me that LO features a lot of consent. That looks good, I'm sure. But children cannot consent to sex, honestly. Especially not with an adult, so this is a very intentional but gross thing for creators to act like they're doing their audience a favor and trying to paint them as less creepy/violent. Also, I think looking at what kind of characters and the scenarios around non-con are important too. Besides NTR, which itself can go any kind of (sometimes fascinating) direction, non-con in het stuff vs bl/mlm gets very intriguing to look at. (Results/context are still pretty depressing, but still.) It would be really cool to see someone that collects this data across audienes and creators. But then with some magazines shutting down (terrified of that for my renai ones), or how hard it is for some artists, I imagine that might get harder. |
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