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GAME: DmC Devil May Cry


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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:35 am Reply with quote
Yes, because how dare consumers want something that's not wrapped up in puerile nonsense (as supposed to FUN nonsense in the case of Devil May Cry 1-4). I mean really, it's like we're trying to be mature (or at least not stupid) or something and that just can't stand.

This is about how DmC more focused on being a dumbed down (SSS being that easy to get pretty much throws any point of the ranking system out of the window, It's the "Everyone's special" routine), grim-dark ([controversial thing with a sniper rifle]) poorly written ("F' yoooooaregh!") mess of a thing that's been made by someone who has nothing but disdain for the source material that he has been charged to adapt by Capcom, a company who, quite frankly, shouldn't be trusted to cook soup.

You can have the best game in the world (and, what I gather from the reviews the game, as a gameplay experience, is not bad) but if you present your game poorly, as Ninja Theory have done, you might as well just have coded Custer's Revenge.

Is there a good story to tell with this Dante and, indeed, this world (As much as John Carpenter will probably want to have words with Capcom and Ninja Theory about it)? Sure, but Ninja Theory, people known for telling good stories, did not tell it.
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darkslayer709



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 55
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 7:02 am Reply with quote
Could I just ask those of you who are criticising the game for it’s ‘crude language’ if you have actually seen more of the game beyond *THAT* cutscene?

Don’t get me wrong Dante swears which in comparison to the older games does stand out because he never used to but you all make it sound like he’s dropping F-Bombs left right and centre every two seconds and I just can’t help but feel that a lot of you are judging it based off a single cutscene rather than the game as a whole.

I’m personally enjoying the game a lot and I can’t help but feel that if they had called it anything but Devil May Cry it wouldn’t be getting the kind of hate that it is. The dialogue has made me laugh, the boss fights are incredibly fun and the sheer variety of the level design is beautiful to look at. I’ve caught myself wasting time just looking around a level to read the various subliminal demon messages that show up and at one point stood around for almost a full minute admiring the upside-down rain effects and all the other little details of a level.

I loved DMC1 and 3, I think everybody knows what 2 was and 4 for me was playable but ultimately lacking. To be honest I actually think that 2 and 4 have something in common because both games involved heavy backtracking and repeated levels just so you could play as two characters (2 was worse of course, at least in 4 Dante had a personality). Following up an amazing game like DMC3 was always going to be difficult but I really felt that Capcom dropped the ball; the graphics were stellar but the gameplay was slow, tedious and I felt as though they had actually taken abilities away from Dante that he’d had in the previous games, again much like 2 as by giving him the ability to switch his styles on the fly it felt as though those styles had lost a lot of their depth and controllability - though in fairness unlike 1 and 3 I only played 4 once so I may have missed a trick with that, the game just had zero replay value for me.

Maybe I just don’t play the game for the same reasons a lot of ‘true’ DMC fans who feel they should hate on this game do – I never played for style points and mission rankings, I played because I liked the characters, the story (however cheesy it always was) and the combat so for me DmC has not let me down for any of those things.
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PikminExpert



Joined: 12 Nov 2011
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:25 pm Reply with quote
darkslayer709 wrote:
Following up an amazing game like DMC3 was always going to be difficult but I really felt that Capcom dropped the ball; the graphics were stellar but the gameplay was slow, tedious and I felt as though they had actually taken abilities away from Dante that he’d had in the previous games, again much like 2 as by giving him the ability to switch his styles on the fly it felt as though those styles had lost a lot of their depth and controllability - though in fairness unlike 1 and 3 I only played 4 once so I may have missed a trick with that, the game just had zero replay value for me.


I thought switching styles on the fly was a great feature to the game. I don't see how it could be viewed as a bad thing at all. It allowed for so much more combo potential and just made for tons of more possibilities when it came to combat. DMC4 actually has some of the best gameplay in terms of all DMC games, even when compared to DMC3. What it lacked was story, I will agree with others on that part.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:29 pm Reply with quote


There should be backlash from turning Dante from a cool badass to some immature emo guy. I really hope they learn from their mistakes and go back to what makes Dante a great character in the next game.

I don't deny the game itself might be fun, but I'm not going to support a game like this. If I play it, it'll just be a used copy down the line.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4036
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 pm Reply with quote
I wouldn't take user scores very seriously. /v/ and other sites routinely launches campaigns to have everyone make tons of accounts and downvote games they dislike.
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PrecisionCrab



Joined: 02 Nov 2012
Posts: 215
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:46 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
If this game fails to sell well due to pure fan rage, that'll be really disappointing.

By all measure it's a solid, well-made, fun game. The reviews are pretty universally positive. They knock it for the silly over-the-top immaturity of the story and characters, but then in the same breath acknowledge that it's still fun and campy anyway. You know, like the original games were, fun and campy.

If it's just people screaming and crying that it isn't like the old games, so regardless of the game's actual quality let's trash it beyond recognition in every corner of the internet we can find, and that superficial nonsense is what causes the game to fail, then congrats, the internet is officially the angry mob that can make or break someone's fortunes based on even the flimsiest, shallowest reasons.

Which is kind of terrifying for anyone trying to do anything new with any established property - "make it exactly like it's always been made, no exceptions or we'll ruin you"? That's the kind of mob tyranny that destroys potential creativity. It sucks.


What...wha-wha-wha...egogorgork! ZAC! What the F*CK are you doing!?!?!

Haven't you learned? You're not allowed to think positively of this game! Or think negatively of the fanbase! Your credibility as a journalist is now thrown into question by a bunch of bitchy fantards! For shame. And I really thought you knew how the game was played...

I'm gonna go and watch Elcor Hamlet now.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2229
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:48 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:


There should be backlash from turning Dante from a cool badass to some immature emo guy. I really hope they learn from their mistakes and go back to what makes Dante a great character in the next game.

I don't deny the game itself might be fun, but I'm not going to support a game like this. If I play it, it'll just be a used copy down the line.


Well, THIS Dante is not really "emo" per say. Heck, I think I might have preferred emo: at least then he would keep his mouth shut. God, when you want the hero to die because of how much of a prick he is, YOU HAVE FAILED AS A WRITER
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Satsujinki



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:23 am Reply with quote
After reading this thread, I have to say, some context is definitely in order.

The original Devil May Cry became the de facto standard of hack & slash games. Instead of being relegated to the same button and combo ad nauseam, you were given a multitude of opportunities to play according to your personal style and were actually graded in real time for your creativity.

Director Hideki Kamiya also worked on the first Resident Evil game and directed its critically acclaimed sequel, you know, those games with the loathsome static camera angles. Devil May Cry has them, the trademark puzzle solving and "You are dead" screens because it was supposed to be the next Resident Evil game (RE4) originally.

The protagonist himself was also very well received, but it wouldn't be long before someone else took over the reins for DMC2. People didn't like that Dante had become a super-serious stick in the mud who barely spoke a word. DMC3 on the other hand was an incredibly well received return to form and then some -- which was also intended as a reboot.

DMC4 came along and in addition to some questionable design choices such as the game's new protagonist, Nero, and forced backtracking with Dante, IIRC, Kamiya didn't really say anything about the series' inconsistency. It wasn't until he saw what the new Dante had become that we really knew what he felt.

Whereas Kamiya has attempted to empathize with the existing, reasonable fans (has blown up at the unreasonable ones), Antoniades has been notably dismissive of his critics. Probably not the best way to get skeptics to see your point of view.

Does anyone remember another game made by Ninja Theory called Heavenly Sword? Ever play it or see it in action? This is important because Antoniades has said:
Quote:
...it felt like DMC was a little stuck in its ways. It needed to be let loose. That's what we were told as part of our mandate to reinvent it.

So his idea of reinvention is to make the gameplay virtually identical to the game he developed before it with a few improvements. Interesting. I feel I should also mention that the game pigeonholes your tactics towards the end because certain enemies that require certain weapons to defeat them become the norm.

This is the kind of humor you would expect of the old games. This is what passes for humor now. They might as well be two separate brands altogether.

Without getting into too many technical details, if you got an S/SS rank at the end of a level, you legitimately earned it through perseverance and a fine understanding of the game's more esoteric nuances.

In the reboot, however, the game literally tells you during a loading screen that if you collect all of the items in a level, the game will award you a SSS rank for that level indefinitely, even upon revisiting it. Number of times you were hit, items you consumed, times you've died won't matter -- all of which would have in the older games.

There are numerous other things which make it ridiculously easy, especially comparatively, but this really drives the point home that they're trying to appeal more to the casual crowd, which ironically was another common complaint with DMC2.

At the end of the day, you can put any kind of spin you want on the reasons someone will dislike this game if you are of the mind that it should be accepted regardless of what it is; but I'm pretty sure that people have already made unconscious decisions about whether or not they'll purchase something based on their standards of taste. It doesn't necessarily make you more enlightened or open minded that you give something the time of day that someone else wont, it just means that maybe Buffy and government mind control conspiracy theories with a touch of disenfranchised and rebellious youth sticking it to the man is your thing.
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Aultra



Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:03 am Reply with quote
Satsujinki wrote:
In the reboot, however, the game literally tells you during a loading screen that if you collect all of the items in a level, the game will award you a SSS rank for that level indefinitely, even upon revisiting it. Number of times you were hit, items you consumed, times you've died won't matter -- all of which would have in the older games.


This is not true, you get a SSS rank for your item collection bonus which gives your score a times 8 multiplier. Which I can tell you does not gaurentee your score for the mission as a SSS. Deaths at any difficulty, even with 100% item collection, still give a -10% penalty to your score and items still decrease your score by 10k for each one used. Even running through earlier levels with 100% item collection I still got a couple SS scores.

Also not every cutscene or boss fight has cursing. I'm pretty sure the 2nd, (3rd?) boss in game has no curses at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=99EV9Z0CejM#t=185s It may have a curse or two, but I don't remember anything that stuck out.

What I will agree with though is that they did in fact make it too easy to get SSS during combos, the axe can make you go from A to SS with just a combo with no exageration, boss fights were very easy and some of the missions were quite short. Otherwise I found it to be a good game, not amazing but good.
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Satsujinki



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Then it would appear that we're all mistaken when viewing that screen. However, in my haste I failed to mention some other key factors, such as the ability to farm style points in an area to potentially (over)compensate any deficits one might encounter on their playthrough.

Also, I never made the argument that every cutscene has cursing, but that this was just an example of the comedic schtick they're working with this time around. It definitely isn't as though the older games were void of expletives, just the f-bomb or the frequency otherwise. Nero in fact was notable for his colorful language comparatively.

As far as mission length goes, are missions in DmC shorter than this?
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Aultra



Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Yeah that screen is a bit misleading since I thought the exact same thing after viewing it since it apparently didn't elborate. By deficits I'm assuming you mean having trouble on a mission, and you could just play a mission over since you get points toward a new upgrade every time a mission is accomplished. Or collect keys and replay missions for more max health by opening doors.

I apologize about reading your statement wrong, most people do make the arguement that it's just crude humor which is what I assumed you ment. But you are correct in that the humor is more vulgar in this one and doesn't have the "charm" of the older ones. Probably another part of the game that does detract a little when you compare to the older ones and hopefully if another is made would be something they would fix since the story and humor was probably the weakest part.

Unfortunately there are 2 missions that can be finished sub 2 minutes and 1 that consists of about 5 rooms and takes about 15, due to platforming. Otherwise most are 15-25 minutes and with a couple that are quite large being around 30 minutes, which resulted in a SSS on time bonus.
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Satsujinki



Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 33
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:16 pm Reply with quote
Sorry I wasn't clear: I was referring chiefly to ranking deficits. You can pretty much cheese the game by going to a particular area in a given level and wail on enemies until you collect so many style points, that anything you might get docked for will be almost entirely negligible; because the ranking system is directly tied to your overall score instead of strictly per-aspect like it was before.

If another is made, Capcom will have to either make another prequel/interquel in house, or continue to give Ninja Theory creative license - it's one or the other because Dante's family situation, upbringing and motivations are completely different now. No one can use this game to fill in any blanks on the other games. It's kind of surreal how they've attempted to market the game as Shakespearean in its storytelling when the dialogue is so on the nose that it actually showcases how it's anything but.
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ConanSan



Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Posts: 1818
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:41 am Reply with quote
Satsujinki wrote:
Sorry I wasn't clear: I was referring chiefly to ranking deficits. You can pretty much cheese the game by going to a particular area in a given level and wail on enemies until you collect so many style points, that anything you might get docked for will be almost entirely negligible; because the ranking system is directly tied to your overall score instead of strictly per-aspect like it was before.

If another is made, Capcom will have to either make another prequel/interquel in house, or continue to give Ninja Theory creative license - it's one or the other because Dante's family situation, upbringing and motivations are completely different now. No one can use this game to fill in any blanks on the other games. It's kind of surreal how they've attempted to market the game as Shakespearean in its storytelling when the dialogue is so on the nose that it actually showcases how it's anything but.
At this point if Ninja Theory would hire a writer that would be a start.

They can do levels, graphics and such, but whooboy does their writing staff need a swift sweep to the leg.
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shamisen the great



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: Oregon, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:55 am Reply with quote
I don't know. I thought the story in Enslaved was pretty good.
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methaniel



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 61
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:32 am Reply with quote
Satsujinki wrote:
As far as mission length goes, are missions in DmC shorter than this?


There is one mission in DmC that can be done in roughly the same time (and actually it's the one you'll do for those aiming for the "mission in less than 2 minutes" trophy), though styles points won't be enough if you rush it I think (unless you really rack a lot against the first batch of ennemies but I'm not sure it's possible to get enough)
Also, a question but in the previous DMC, wasn't it also possible to get the most points possible in certains area then skip other fights later since anyway you would have enough style points engranged? I thought that aspect didn't changed but I have never been much of a scorer so I don't exactly pay attention
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