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GAME: Tales of Xillia


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Echo_City



Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:09 pm Reply with quote
There are some vague sentences in this review that I really believe should be clarified. I know that I am "in the dark" as to what the reviewer meant by them (due to their vagueness) as things stand.
Quote:
Everything is fungible, which is not how a Tales game should be. Tales games have personality. Though it may not be a personality you particularly enjoy (it is, most likely, a personality that exasperates you), most Tales games have some sort of verve.
What does this even mean? I am familiar with the word "fungible" but even so I can not say for certain that I know what the reviewer means by it. The second sentence quoted above does not elucidate the first, the one containing the "fungible". Which elements of this game are being said to be "swappable" (ie:fungible) by the author?

I'm not sure as to why the reviewer launches into how the games in this series have "personality", mentions that that "personality" is likely irksome, and then tangents over to "verve". Is he implying that this game lacks "verve"? He's saying that this game has "personality" (by definition) and that "verve" is separate from "personality" (again, by definition) and since the two are separate constructs why are they in a sentence together as though they were related? Clearly they are not as the reviewer states that "Tales of" games have had "personality" without "verve" before.
Ultimatum wrote:
Still, this whole review reads less like something that belongs on a commercial website and more like a blog post. It seems (to me) that the author was trying so hard to be clever and snarky that he forgot everything else. That works for people like Zac in the season previews, but not so much here. The whole thing just feels so amateurish, in my opinion.
I was sort of thinking along those same lines, albeit for different reasons.
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belvadeer





PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Echo_City wrote:
What does this even mean? I am familiar with the word "fungible" but even so I can not say for certain that I know what the reviewer means by it. The second sentence quoted above does not elucidate the first, the one containing the "fungible". Which elements of this game are being said to be "swappable" (ie:fungible) by the author?

I'm not sure as to why the reviewer launches into how the games in this series have "personality", mentions that that "personality" is likely irksome, and then tangents over to "verve". Is he implying that this game lacks "verve"? He's saying that this game has "personality" (by definition) and that "verve" is separate from "personality" (again, by definition) and since the two are separate constructs why are they in a sentence together as though they were related? Clearly they are not as the reviewer states that "Tales of" games have had "personality" without "verve" before.


That actually bothered me too. I don't see the correlation he's making at all.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:27 am Reply with quote
While I don't agree with the review much at all (other than the Lilium system being overly complicated and annoyingly meaningless), the only real issue I have is about the length. I'm just about to beat the game and I clocked in at around 60 hours(with very little grinding). I really have no idea how the reviewer beat it in 30 hours. But I can't imagine the typical player experience would be less than 50+.

HitokiriShadow wrote:
Yeah, I really liked what they did with him. They "Okay, yeah, we've done this to death and everyone expects it, so let's run with it" and it worked pretty well. Would be nice to see them find a way to do that with 1 or 2 other staples of the Tales stories now.

Since I came into this with no Tales experience since Phantasia--it was a surprise to me when the hints started dropping. Not sure how many other new players there are though.
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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:28 am Reply with quote
doctordoom85 wrote:
Lady Multi wrote:
Alvin is essentially Kratos (ToS)


The others work but this one doesn't work as well. Alvin's more similar to Raven from Vesperia. I get in one way Alvin is like Kratos but Kratos is too serious compared to Alvin's more mix of goofiness and seriousness so Raven seems like a better fit.


Well, he's a hodgepodge anyway; just like the other characters. I used Kratos for his example simply because spoiler[how he's working both sides but is still working for himself just as Kratos was; Raven is Raven... he's working both sides but he never really acts out on his own with is own mission... Kraddy went off to do his own thing at one point under Mithos's nose whilst still not being with Yuan's group nor Lloyd's group. You find that Alvin, or Alfred, is essentially doing everything he is doing by playing all the sides to do what he can for his mother as Kratos is for his son].... and the fact that his cameo costume is that of Kratos. Mind you, I know everything about Kratos. Smile I've never beaten the game without him, heh, thus making the "sequel" to ToS irrelevant by my play standards if you know what happens.
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dan9999



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 648
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:05 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:

You can't just decide that some optional events matter and count towards the game time and others don't, especially since the player has no way of knowing this when playing through normally for the first time.


We look at it differently then.

Tales series subquests are not your typical "optional" sidequests, yes, you can skip them all, at at the end you went at the story with half motivation and skipped on important character development (maybe you dont like jrpgs if that is the case), they are an integral part of the main story and should be accounted for if you are arguing length in the Tales series, I go further, you need to address really all that which account for the length (story + sidequests + difficulty + challenges + treasure hunting, etc), seriously, you cannot say the sub-events are "optional" here, when they provide too much character development and story progress, same as skits, you can skip them all if you wish and those are an integral part of the Tales series, as they develop and dwell into character personalities.

So for me at the least the minimum you can account for length in the tales are: story + story subevents + skits (core features of any tales game).


Last edited by dan9999 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:05 am Reply with quote
Just to add to that wall of text. One of Vesperia's trophies is for speed play of 15 hours (in the slightly longer PS3 version).. that means that Vesperia's story is...15 hours long rushed. I'd say apx. 25-30 hours not rushed. So Xillia isn't any shorter. If any Tales series game is short it's Legendia, you have to force yourself to go slow in that game. Then again, time spent is how focused you are in the game... My ToV game is clocked at over 150 hours and I've never completed the speed-run. Legendia I've never beaten because its so agonizingly simple to me.

That, and I'm at apx 70 hours in Xillia and not finished with Milla's side yet. I fought the Golden Knight twice in post-game and practically cleared everything but level 99 trophies and rare monsters trophies....
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dan9999



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 648
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:17 am Reply with quote
Lady Multi wrote:


Just to add to that wall of text. One of Vesperia's trophies is for speed play of 15 hours (in the slightly longer PS3 version).. that means that Vesperia's story is...15 hours long rushed. I'd say apx. 25-30 hours not rushed. So Xillia isn't any shorter. If any Tales series game is short it's Legendia, you have to force yourself to go slow in that game. Then again, time spent is how focused you are in the game... My ToV game is clocked at over 150 hours and I've never completed the speed-run. Legendia I've never beaten because its so agonizingly simple to me.

That, and I'm at apx 70 hours in Xillia and not finished with Milla's side yet. I fought the Golden Knight twice in post-game and practically cleared everything but level 99 trophies and rare monsters trophies....


The shortest tales game I remember playing is Innocence.

It took a a while to get to Legendia, but it wasnt bad at all but one of the weakest tales games indeed.

Too bad Tales of Destiny 2 and Tales of rebirth never got localized, they are really great games, specially Destiny 2.

15 hours speed play on ToV, maybe, skipping ALL cutescenes, quite doable. Maybe Xillia can take the same +/- on easiest difficulty and skipping everything (cutescenes and skits).

30 on Xillia is doable but rushed via skipping subevents, I did that on my Japanese playthrough, and clocked I think 34 or so I think on Milla side (did not brother with Jude) but skipped on a number of subevents, mostly errands and the like, and went with the easiest difficulty too, went at it without a walkthrough, doing any story subevents that crossed my path only, and even then as I said, you had to take into account the other side has more subevents and more story, so fuse the extra story on the other character and its not shorter by any means to other Tales games; however, this setup and forcing me play basically the game 2 times for extra story and subevents is by no means a virtue, on the contrary, totally annoying, I hope to never see this gimmick implemented ever again.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:19 am Reply with quote
The Vesperia speed-run is generally done with x10 experience, carrying over the best equipment, and constant Holy Bottle usage so that you almost never fight a non-boss battle. And people would be skipping through all of the cutscenes as fast as possible. So you can't use that as a judgement of the game's "story length".

But when reviewers make claims about game lengths, they're talking about normal, first time playthroughs. Obviously, people's playthroughs will differ. This review isn't the first time I've seen someone claim it's a 30 hour game, but I sure would have taken a lot longer than that even if I hadn't done a few things that added 3-5 hours to my time.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 1176
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:29 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
But when reviewers make claims about game lengths, they're talking about normal, first time playthroughs. Obviously, people's playthroughs will differ. This review isn't the first time I've seen someone claim it's a 30 hour game, but I sure would have taken a lot longer than that even if I hadn't done a few things that added 3-5 hours to my time.

I'm aware this isn't a mothership title, but I wonder to people who've played this game how the length of it compares to say Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World? Although I haven't played as many Tales games as I would like to get around, even I found that one to be pretty short in gameplay length.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3524
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:07 pm Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
The Vesperia speed-run is generally done with x10 experience, carrying over the best equipment, and constant Holy Bottle usage so that you almost never fight a non-boss battle. And people would be skipping through all of the cutscenes as fast as possible. So you can't use that as a judgement of the game's "story length".

But when reviewers make claims about game lengths, they're talking about normal, first time playthroughs. Obviously, people's playthroughs will differ. This review isn't the first time I've seen someone claim it's a 30 hour game, but I sure would have taken a lot longer than that even if I hadn't done a few things that added 3-5 hours to my time.

I tend to be pretty OCD about these sorts of games, constantly going back to check old locales for new dialog or quests... I think it took me around 80 hours to complete my first playthrough (Jude Route). I'm sure it'll take me considerably less time to do my Milla Route playthrough.

I didn't think that the game was too short.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:57 pm Reply with quote
By the way, for anyone interested, the Idolm@ster costumes are now available on the PSN store in the U.S. Also some cameo costumes (outfits from previous characters in the series), apparently.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 5:27 pm Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
By the way, for anyone interested, the Idolm@ster costumes are now available on the PSN store in the U.S. Also some cameo costumes (outfits from previous characters in the series), apparently.


Yeah I was excited when I saw those Idolmaster costumes, I didn't have any hope of getting them. I bought them all right up... I can't wait to have Idolmaster songs playing during battle!
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Lady Multi



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:51 pm Reply with quote
dan9999 wrote:

The shortest tales game I remember playing is Innocence.

...
Too bad Tales of Destiny 2 and Tales of rebirth never got localized, they are really great games, specially Destiny 2.
...


I've never beaten Innocence but I think I was at 23 hours or so on it. I enjoyed the guild mission crap for some reason.... So much so that I forgot where I was supposed to go (oops).

Tales of Destiny 2 is awesome; it stinks we never got either editions localized... It is the game that I bought my Japanese PS2 to play and I don't regret it in the slightest. Even having to read a translation on paper of what they are saying, it's a great game. The ending kinda ticked me off a bit though... spoiler[magical time reset button and all...All you did was -nothing- congratz. xD]

Rebirth would have been a translation nightmare; it has interesting concepts in it but the game is 80% conversation... I ended up skipping skit conversations because they talked ... SO MUCH in that game. This ending made me mad, too. spoiler[I hated that Agarte died; she'd have been a great poster-child for equality in their game-universe (since that was a factor in the game) if her and Milhaust could have gotten together.]

dan9999 wrote:
15 hours speed play on ToV, maybe, skipping ALL cutescenes, quite doable. Maybe Xillia can take the same +/- on easiest difficulty and skipping everything (cutescenes and skits).


When I got my PS3 copy I think I clocked around 60-something hours with all side-quests done minus the Spiral dungeon thing. And there were a LOT of side-quests...that's where I get my TOV unskipped cut-scene estimate of 25-30 hours. Pretty sure I could do that without extra xp...but considering the want to explore the game, I don't even want to do the 15 hour challenge... It's a PS3 trophy, so I'll do it...eventually.

dan9999 wrote:
... however, this setup and forcing me play basically the game 2 times for extra story and subevents is by no means a virtue, on the contrary, totally annoying, I hope to never see this gimmick implemented ever again....


Yeah, I don't really like the dual-chara set-up either. The game should have just been one fusion of the story. There have been times in Tales games where you've had to control various sides; I guess they decided to try something different. It's not -bad- just weird. The fact that you spoiler[have to control Jude in Milla's side because she is crippled] seems almost a bit of proof that it was almost designed like the predecessors to just swap over and such.... Just my thought...that it was originally just one huge mix.
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dan9999



Joined: 25 Oct 2011
Posts: 648
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:41 am Reply with quote
Lady Multi wrote:
Tales of Destiny 2 is awesome; it stinks we never got either editions localized... It is the game that I bought my Japanese PS2 to play and I don't regret it in the slightest. Even having to read a translation on paper of what they are saying, it's a great game. The ending kinda ticked me off a bit though... spoiler[magical time reset button and all...All you did was -nothing- congratz. xD]

It got a way better ending than Xillia/Xillia 2 offer and will offer to those fans that spoiler[ want Jude x Milla ending/development ] I am disappointed in this aspect with Xillia truth to be told. Sad

Now Destiny 2, the ending was like that but the other alternative was much worse mind you, which would mean spoiler[ Stahn remains dead and my beloved Rutie alone for life ] plus, the main protagonists at the time they get spoiler[ reunited again years later, he remembers her name, his eyes told me he remembered anything, well, this is up for individual judgement, but I believe he did, his expression makes me believe so] The main objective was to save spoiler[ Stahn, and sure thing Kyle saved his father, so the journey was successful, to achieve this they had to fix the timeline YES OR YES ]
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 655
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:13 am Reply with quote
You're not a completionist yet you disagree with the review because you think the reviewer should play on unknown difficulty and 100% the game?
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