Forum - View topicHigurashi - When They Cry (TV).
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5480 |
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Something tells me that scene will be explained and probably shown once we get to the (might be) spoiler[Meakashi-hen chapter which is the "Answer" arc for the Watanagashi-hen chapter.] |
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SnowfairyX
 Posts: 438 |
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I noticed that too but I really don't know what to think of it at this point. spoiler[It's like Rena's personality suddenly changed a bit and she suddenly became a more "serious" Rena from the middle of episode 7 onward to 8, but it doesn't really seem to be anything of major importance. I'll just take Abunai's word for it that the character's personalities all stay the same throughout the different arcs and this is just a part of Rena's actual personality that we've never seen before.]
After I finished watching this arc, I reflected back on this scene and found myself with many thoughts and questions. spoiler[First, did this scene actually even occur in this arc? I'm assuming it did based on how the events played out in the last one, but for some reason, this scene was not replayed in similar fashion as expected. When we get to the last episode of this arc (ep. 8) Keiichi is told by Oishi that Satoko and Rika's bodies are found in the well, (presumably murdered by Mion) but I actually found it somewhat suspicious that we do not see their bodies or know of the way they were killed. Now going back to the very first scene of the beginiing of this arc, it seems apparent that Rika comitted suicide by stabbing herself in the head. If this were true and that is actually what ultimately happened to her in this arc, then I would think that Oishi would have already known by the time he spoke with Keiichi in the hospital bed about the dead walking about. I still really don't know what to think at this point but I have a feeling that the detective might either not be entirely truthful, not telling the whole truth or... the scene that ocurred was not real to begin with and it's all in Mion/Shion's head?  (I know, this explanation is getting kind of old). I also thought that the very last scene that ocurred at the very end might not have been real but possibly a nightmare.]
All in all, I thought this arc was great, but not quite as good as the first one which was to be expected. My one major complaint in this one was in the behavior of Keiichi towards Mion in the last episode. spoiler[He seemed far too lax and possibly even forgiving-like towards her even though she admitted to murdering all those people and even while he was at her mercy, about to suffer horrible torture, he remained completely calm and just did not appear to behave entirely realistically to me. Maybe even this could be explained but at the current moment, I'm just not finding Keiichi's actions to be logically acceptable. It's like he's behaving almost the complete opposite from the way he was in the first arc...] |
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-gecko-
 Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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Ah, after watching episode 8, I'm as blissfully ignorant as ever! I do think I am catching on a bit more; this thread has helped immensely...
This episode was the first one to actually gave me the willies, especially spoiler[seeing Shion's reaction to Mion in the 'dungeon', =eek=] [quote="SnowfairyX]All in all, I thought this arc was great, but not quite as good as the first one which was to be expected. My one major complaint in this one was in the behavior of Keiichi towards Mion in the last episode. spoiler[He seemed far too lax and possibly even forgiving-like towards her even though she admitted to murdering all those people and even while he was at her mercy, about to suffer horrible torture, he remained completely calm and just did not appear to behave entirely realistically to me. Maybe even this could be explained but at the current moment, I'm just not finding Keiichi's actions to be logically acceptable. It's like he's behaving almost the complete opposite from the way he was in the first arc...][/quote] I have to agree; this was quite different from the first which turned out a bit better, but keep in mind the newness of the characters in the first and the amount of levity shown among them as compaired to this one. As for Keiichi's behavior spoiler[I would attribute it to the accepted theory that all the arcs are from his perspective, right? Perhaps it's gallantry through his mind's eye.] |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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WARNING. WHAT FOLLOWS ARE HEAVY SPOILERS. MOUSE-OVER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
spoiler[Everybody is mixing up Shion and Mion, and for good reason. The twins aren't exactly making it easy for their surroundings to keep track, with all the switching they do. They've even gotten to the point where they don't react when they are called by the wrong name. So... let me make this (somewhat, but not too) clear: One of the few times where both twins appear in their real guises, and behave reliably in accordance with their true personalities, is in the scene where Mion (the actual, real, genuine Mion) is bringing Keiichi a drink, and Shion uses this against her. The essential innocence of Mion, and Shion's cruelty towards her -- that is a moment of genuine insight. Given that scene, everything else really follows from it.] One thing that must be stressed is that, in this series (as in real life) you should never take a statement at face value. FINAL WARNING: BIG HUGE ENORMOUS MOMMY-THE-BAD-MAN-SPOILED-MY-ANIME SPOILER FOLLOWS. spoiler[When "Sonozaki Mion" makes her elaborate self-presentation, in episode 8, just before everything goes to Hell, you should not believe a word she says. And that includes the name. Yes, that's Shion being carried out on a stretcher with Keiichi. But it's also Shion doing the murdering and torturing. It's Shion you see in the opening sequence of episode 5, laughing as Rika-chan kills herself (you might want to think about why she does that, and tie it in with my remarks earlier that Rika-chan's promise to Keiichi was the creepiest thing in this arc). It's Mion in the cage, and it's Mion's body in the oubliette (mistranslated in the fansubs as a "well", but nevermind... nobody's expected to know the proper word for this sort of thing, it's hardly required everyday usage). What better way for the killer to escape than by posing as a victim...? What you should be thinking about now is who finally manages to put paid to Shion, later on -- and what that implies.] - abunai |
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teferi
 Posts: 400 |
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Man, I shouldve thoguht of that I do it all the time with my I get called by my twin brother's name O_o;;(i.e. just answering .. not the plotting with murderous intent ... altho sometimes...) course just goes to show it's anime ... pulling an act like that would be all but impossible... somehow thoguh I was completely un surprised by the ending ... I mean [spoiler] Rena has her drugs ... Shion has her S&M and whatnot...[quote] can't wait to see how effed up the next loli nutjob is 
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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Yeah, I think I'll skip reading those huge spoilers. I've read a few minor ones but I really don't want to have such a great series spoiled. If everyone else has read those spoilers, I may just bow out of the discussion.
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SnowfairyX
Posts: 438 |
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Same here, and I have no idea why someone would want to read those unless they're not even enjoying the series in the first place and really don't care either way. The excellence of this series would most likely be severely diminished if one were to know more than they should. But on the other hand, there's really no helping those that have already played the game, assuming those are what the spoilers are from. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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About spoilers...
I've pointed out before that the structure of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is such that each chapter represents a particular "event continuum", which isn't congruent with the others, but may be considered a different version of the same basic reality. This means that every chapter casts light on the others (while simultaneously casting into doubt many of the things that the viewer/reader had "learned" from the other chapters). It does not mean that every chapter is the obvious answer to the whole story. Nobody knows the whole story until the final chapter (meaning, incidentally, that the anime audience is going to have to settle for a partial answer). To clarify... Watanagashi-hen isn't the whole story. It isn't even the answer -- it's one of the "question" chapters. So considering spoilers to this chapter as spoilers to the entire anime is overreacting. Furthermore, many of the elements of the story are missing from the anime (otherwise, it would be at least twice as long), so it's fair to say that it is next-to-impossible for the anime-only audience to really understand it all. The best you can hope for is getting the gist of things. By the way, you've already seen at least one scene from one of the "answer" chapters. At the very beginning of episode 5. spoiler[Rika-chan killing herself is a scene from Meakashi-hen, the "answer" chapter to Watanagashi-hen.] - abunai |
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-gecko-
Posts: 285 Location: Near Seattle, WA |
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Well, I for one appreciate all that is in this thread, for without it I would be scratching my head even more than I am now (probably to the point of pulling hairs!)
So you intellectuals, please keep the theories and tidbits you notice coming! I'm trying to graduate from Shounen Fansevice University here. |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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from what I skimmed from google theres alot of stuff left out of the animations like the "tips" that are in the game.
some worthless to the plot ie stuff we already know "they all go to a school thats in the same room" but some are considered helpfull ie a newspaper clipping relating to a event. I did find a link to them but I cant link to them becuse its on a fansub forum. Im sure you guys can easly find it. oh yeah Fair warning most likely contains info from events the anime hasent shown yet. as to abunai and his spoilers I dont know they helped me clarify alot of what I missed becouse it just didn't click and make me go oh yeah then I read the spoiler and its like duh I should have thought of that. but read at your own peril. |
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SnowfairyX
Posts: 438 |
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Kind of off topic, but I just want to mention that I found it very amusing what you did to your name  .
Well I do like the discussion in this thread myself but I've been around other boards for this series as well and for one in particular that I can't mention, I just have to go...  *brain melts*.
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HitokiriShadow
Posts: 6251 |
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The warnings for your spoilers made it sound like it would give away a lot for everything since some things do seem to carry over. I understand that there are different "event spectrums" but, as I said, some aspects seem to carry over so spoiling things for this chapter (and the corresponding answer chapter) could have implications for other chapters as well. Also, I'm really hoping they decide to do OVAs for the last two answer chapters at some point. Because of the 24-26 episode constraint and each chapter taking 4 episodes (give or take, possibly, for later chapters) it is impossible to cover all 8 chapters just in a TV series, but an OVA is certainly a possibility. Especially if this series is really popular in Japan and I'm under the impression that the games are, if not the anime.
I figured that would be shown in the answer chapter later on. Oh, and I love what you did with your signature. EDIT: On a side note, I've noticed a sudden surge in Higurashi avatars in these forums. One person has had one for over a month and suddenly there are three or four more people with them. |
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frentymon
Forums Superstar
 Posts: 2362 Location: San Francisco |
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I've watched up to Episode 5 of this series. Watched Episode 4, midnight last night, and I regret doing that as it disrupted my sleep cycle. Before reading the posts in this thread, I did in fact take everything I saw for granted, which lead to an instant bitter hatred (and fear) of Rena and immense sympathy for Keiichi who died such a violent death. Great series, IMO even better than Haruhi, but also really creepy.
Even though the arc was told in a convoluted and biased manner from only one point of view, aren't there still some conclusions that can be drawn from it and things that won't change? Such as: -Keiichi was there at Hinamizawa Town and "befriended" the 4 girls. -Keiichi spoiler[beat Rena and Mion to death with a bat.] -Keiichi spoiler[killed himself in the telephone booth. (Regardless of what caused it and why he did so).] It seems to me that most of the mystery lies in the characters. And does Shion really exist, or is Keiichi hallucinating or something of the sort? |
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cyrax777
Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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anyone else think its creepy that the cafe shion/mion (whitchever one) works at is named Angel Mort or Angel Death.
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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They are, indeed. This is the most popular doujin game ever, with the exception of the original Tsukihime from TYPE-MOON. About the only reason this isn't the number one anime of the season is that Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu has taken Japan by storm, and the Haruhi-fever sort of throws everything off. (Personally, I love those books and that anime, but in terms of character appeal, I'm much more enchanted with another Haruhi) I expect that, when they release Matsuribayashi-hen, the eighth chapter of the Higurashi game this summer (soon, very soon), the popular demand will outstrip anything seen before. And yes, I'm hoping for some OVAs, too.
Never fear, there's no way I'm likely to give up my present avatar. Even though the manga is over, and Oji-san is most likely dead at the end (it isn't shown, but he was old and much time has passed since the last time he appeared), he still remains one of my favourite characters ever.
I'm sorry, but no. The different chapters aren't just different versions of the same events. One chapter isn't just another chapter told from a different point of view. They are different series of events occurring against the same basic background of potential events that might occur. Some facts are facts, others are misunderstood or distorted. And events that occur in one chapter do not necessarily occur in another. You may take it as given that past events are the same in all chapters, though. For instance, the grisly murder in connection with the projected Hinamizawa Dam Project. But the outcome of the chapters is not the same. For instance, spoiler[Rena, who was killed by Keiichi at the end of Onikakushi-hen, is alive at the end of Watanagashi-hen. This isn't shown in the anime, but it's revealed in a post-game "epilogue" for that chapter.]
100% true, and I applaud you for being the first in this thread to express it so clearly.
Oh, she's quite real, as real as Mion. spoiler[Which one is which at what particular instant, is another question. Sometimes I think they're not even sure, themselves.] BTW, I believe somebody mentioned that they were put off by Keiichi suddenly acting cool (in that scene -- you know the one I mean -- in episode 8). They felt that it was out of tune with his character. This isn't so. As the story progresses, you will see just how cool and in control Keiichi can be. And he certainly has a gift for saying the right thing at the right time (with one notable and catastrophic exception). - abunai |
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