Forum - View topicShelf Life - Super Lovers
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4102 |
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I am a fan of fanservice shows and absolutely did not like it. I could not stand how sexist it was as the activity itself only seem to pay if the "athlete" in question won so it placed this "sport" on par with a wet tee shirt contest. And yes, I actually went into the first episode wondering about that angle. I am a fan of fanservice and sometimes it's just better to have no point to it than to try to half heartedly validate it. "Well, it's the audience's fault, it's not what we creators do." If you want to turn boobs and butt into a pro sport, everyone gets paid.... kind of like the adult film industry. The American one, I can't say anything about the Japanese one. Thank you, Keijo !x8 for forcing me to write such a statement.
Try Save Me, Lollipop! then. The girl Nina is 12, the older brother Ichi is 18 or 19. At the very least, he can drive and is several years older than Zero who is later said to be 15 to Nina's 12. The dub ups her age to 14 but still keeps her as a first year middle school student, a 6th grader, somehow. It's usually ignored because of so many other relationships the series tries to sell. At least, this series is the first one I thought when I read the review. Young person has crush on older person, yeah, it happens. Older person thinks "Oh yeah, target almost half my age who happens to be a minor is a go!" then no... |
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Cutiebunny
 Posts: 1755 |
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No, Reiji was completely predatory. And, with Mimi, it was not looked upon as unfavorably in-universe. spoiler[Her "father" earned as much money as he could for her to look adorable, and at least in the manga, he talks about how he's going to bang her once she hits the age of consent (16, in this case). There's an episode of him sleeping in the same bed as Rin and making it out to be more than just a child snuggling with her parent. He fantasizes about Rin looking and being just as well endowed as her mom was when he was living with her. And then when it becomes apparent that Rin doesn't like him in that way, he switches to Rin's friend, Mimi. By the end of the manga, Reiji and Mimi (now 16 years old) are expecting. And the manga makes him out to be the hero here because he stood up to Mimi's parents when she was younger because they failed to tell her about menstruation.] Not quite sure how you can argue that Reiji wasn't grooming. He seemed to me like the type of man who didn't really care who he ended up with as long as she was barely legal and had a good rack. Last edited by Cutiebunny on Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Coup d'État
 Posts: 179 |
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The problem I have with this is that the in-universe portrayal of 'wrongness' doesn't match the real-world marketing of the series (Disclaimer: I did not read the Manga and have no intention to do so). I often hear the argument being made that the teacher rebuffes all advances and the girl (girls?) are shown to be troubled kids from bad backgrounds, which explains their behaviour. Hence, the story doesn't sexually exploit them, but shows a real social issue instead. And that would be ... idk, 'ok-ish' if it was true, but then die DMP Kickstarter offers sexy hug-pillows of the girls and all pretense flies right out of the window. Heck, just look at the manga's covers. They are drawn like that for a reason. |
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Seif
 Posts: 457 |
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Come on guys. I've seen every bit of Prisma Illya anime put out and those of you getting super defensive are being silly. Of course there are many people that come for the juicy Fate lore and badass fights but it's absurd to pretend like the lolicon trait isn't one of the main selling points of the show.
It may not be why you or I are here but it's clearly marketed and hyped for that audience. Literally every single bonus ova is pure cheesecake for these aspects. Funny how we don't get a cool OVA short about what Kiritsugu's doing or what Waver's up to at the Clock Tower, right? The film is the only thing remotely tasteful about the series and that thing was only half animated. |
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Catsplay
 Posts: 381 |
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I completely disagree. I've been following Prisma Illya for 10 years now since it started as a manga and it's always had substance and greating writing, not just during the Shirou arc of 3rei (which the movie adapts). The anime ups the fanservice obviously but since most of it IS contained in the OVAs and specials that's not really an issue, and the fanservice in the main plot (Like kuro kissing the girls for mana) is part of Type Moon lore and actually has a reason for being there. This is coming from someone that loves loli fanservice but Prisma Illya definitely has more going for it then just that and is just as much of a great Fate series as other entries, especially 3rei onwards (Even now the current manga arc has been utterly fantastic. Only good stuff to come from the 5th anime season). |
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Catsplay
Posts: 381 |
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Did they seriously stop it? I was waiting to buy the physical copies and I was excited it met it's goals. What happened? |
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Seif
Posts: 457 |
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I didn't say that Prism Illya didn't have other things going for it. I explicitly said the opposite. What I said was that one of Prisma Illya main selling point was the lolicon fanservice. Which it is.
Just because the lolicon fanservice is justified in Universe does not make it not lolicon fanservice. Mana transfers don't really exist. That plot point was added principally to give a reason for two twelve year old girls to have extended make out sessions. And saying that most of the lolicon stuff is contained in the OVAs is patently false. It's most explicit in the OVAs buy is intimately woven into nearly every aspect of the show. The manga has moved more and more away from it as it's popularity has increased but its still there and the anime has made it a fundamental part of it's idenity. Last edited by Seif on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18249 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I'm also going to disagree here. I enjoy the the Prisma Illya side of the franchise despite the loli stuff, which I'd happily do without; in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Western fans who actually watch it primarily for the loli side are a small minority of the series' fans. It's got plenty enough spectacular action and compelling characters and plot to hold appeal without that side of it. Concerning Keijo!!!!!!!!, Paul wasn't the only ANN staffer rating it highly that season; it was my #1 pick and someone else's #2 also. |
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Seif
Posts: 457 |
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I completely agree.
I mostly agree. I'd be willing to bet that the average western fan would much prefer it without the lolicon stuff. I know I would. None of these things change the fact that Prisma Illya is marketed with lolicon fanservice, is made with extensive lolicon fanservice, and is widely known for its explicit lolicon fanservice. When the average anime fan thinks of Prisma Illya they don't think "Oh, that's the show with the awesome fights." They think of Kuro and Illya making out. Because that's the bed the show's chosen to make. Getting upset at someone for labeling it as a lolicon fanservice show as if it's an unreasonable conclusion to come to is both silly and unfair. Last edited by Seif on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Terrible90sDub
 Posts: 168 |
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This is my main issue with this type of material too. The amount of BL or GL that gets made into anime is fairly rare, and when it is, it's almost always something with underage relationships, unequal relationships, and/or sexual assault. There's a good example of the last one this season even, I watched one episode of Citrus and just... *sighs* Not to say there isn't a place for that, but it's pretty jarring when there's so little to counter that image. A friend of mine who is fluent in Japanese always tells me that there's plenty of BL manga and drama CDs which lack the tropes like this, but they rarely get translated. I'd really like to see more of those, especially since it seems like "BL" has become some kind of dirty word in a lot of western anime fandom... I frequently see it used in a context of "this is good because it's not BL!" when I think I'd rather see BL be flipped around into a positive instead of making exceptions like that. Also, I read this whole thread and I don't think anyone has actually had anything good to say about Super Lovers yet despite the arguments? 
Last edited by Terrible90sDub on Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total |
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MetaKite
Posts: 3 |
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I am a huge BL fan and am accustomed to the risque themes in them like the fact that Ai no Kusabi is really all about engineering stockholm syndrome so your hostage falls in love with you and that that Takano and Ritsu's relationship in Sekaiichi Hatsukoi is very toxic for the both of them in different way (as a couple of examples). Still, I really hate Super Lovers (the manga is so much worse) because Haru is very manipulative and is in fact predatory and grooming his little brother for sex and not as a sibling. Super Lovers would rank high on the list for anybody into rape culture where it's normalized to coerce and manipulate a young mind into thinking that sort of behavior is fine. |
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Usagi-kun
 Posts: 877 Location: Nashville, TN |
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Thank-you for sharing your perspective. I won't pretend to understand the intricate details of this lifestyle and terminology, but the principles still stand in heterosexual relationships. In this case, however, I feel like approaching a show like this, even with a 'good' agenda, it will not inherently adhere to these 'rules'. Shows like this are pure titillation, and as you already said, not an indicator an applicable, real world example of love/sexual relationships. Kink is kink to all of us, deep down where we live. Nothing is sacred, guaranteed to be wholesome, coherent, or even practically possible. I agree with you, but fantasy is fantasy. Unless it encroaches on established law and order, there is nothing you can personally say or persuade for people to abandon these desires or stop deriving pleasure from their depictions. All cats look grey in the dark, I guess. |
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MetaKite
Posts: 3 |
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Quoting because it's true and needs repeating as many times as possible! |
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razisgosu
Posts: 657 |
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Not confirmed but there hasn't been any movement on the kickstarter in quite sometime and DMP refuses to comment on why they're being silent. Numerous other DMP kickstarters have received similar "delayed" updates. Rumor is the company is going under. |
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Ashen Phoenix
 Posts: 2917 |
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Same. I'm almost always deterred by trashy T&A in series but with Keijo it was honest from the get-go. It was hilariously over-the-top and for that I loved it. As for the review of Super Lovers. I must say bravo. I've enjoyed a lot from the BL side of anime/manga over the years but one thing I cannot and will not ever feel comfortable with--even in the context of "fantasy"--is sexual child-adult pairings. |
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