×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: Nozomi Licenses Rental Magica TV Anime


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:18 am Reply with quote
Dargonxtc wrote:
This is funny because I just got done watching Innocence on Blu-ray(looks awesome btw), and yes I own the earlier version as well.

Was the original R1 release sub-only? If so that'd be news to me, considering we've been enjoying a dual-audio one for some time now.

Quote:
I still hope a company over in the jolly UK picks up Emma and dubs it. And if it takes 10 years, I'll buy it again.

Taking into account the need for a substantial change in the status quo, 10 years could be quite an optimistic guess for a niche title such as that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
Takeyo



Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 736
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:38 am Reply with quote
Yeah, the original Dreamworks release of Innocence was sub only. The dub version came a couple years later if memory serves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:57 am Reply with quote
I guess I can probably understand this one being sub only. It wasn't that popular, even though I liked it. I don't like it being sub only at all.. but I guess I can deal with this one not having the "economic viability" to produce a dub. I am not sure it would be strong enough to do that either.

I had thought we had a good chance of it getting a dub due to Kadokawa, but this Nozomi thing obviously kills that chance entirely. I really don't want them to get Spice and Wolf (it sounds like Funimation has that, but I haven't heard that anywhere official yet? )
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
Reliak



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:52 pm Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:

I had thought we had a good chance of it getting a dub due to Kadokawa, but this Nozomi thing obviously kills that chance entirely. I really don't want them to get Spice and Wolf (it sounds like Funimation has that, but I haven't heard that anywhere official yet? )


I don't think the Nozomi thing is the reason why it's not getting dubbed. Nozomi has dubbed stuff before, and if they find a show they think will profit with a dub I'm sure they'll do it. I perceive their model more as "No one else is willing to pick up and dub this show, so we'll give it a release so that some fans can have it." They're NOT out to screw dub fans over, nor are they doing it out of elitism or spite.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
poehitman



Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 93
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 2:06 pm Reply with quote
All of you "proving me wrong" about sub-only releases getting a dub later, there was a reason I said "I can't recall any " instead of "No sub-only release". I knew there may be a few out there that might have had a miracle happen to them, but the vast majority do not. THAT was my point.

LordRedhand wrote:
Boils down to rights that can hold up an anime's licensing.

Best example would be to think of anime like land, where the person who owned it separated into lots. like show music, opening/ending music and animation, and voice work and so on. Because of our demands the anime licensor must have all of them (or most of them in the case of Speed Grapher although that didn't turn out to well.... at least for some) to release it, one person thinks his piece of the "land" is worth "x" and your only willing to pay "y" as in one case where the person who did the show music wants more than both animation and voice work combined for example. And also add time to track down the rights holders.

No, what it boils down to is that the Japanese companies are asking obscene amounts for shows that aren't worth anywhere near the amounts they are asking for. Within the next decade or so Japan is going to turn around and wonder where the hell all the US anime companies went. They went out of business because they couldn't turn a profit at the insane prices Japanese companies are demanding. Then the Japanese companies will go out of business and wonder "What the hell happened?"

What I believe needs to happen is that the Japanese companies need to either open up a US branch or they can purchase an existing US company. It would probably be a more viable business model.

[EDIT: Learn how to use the Edit button instead of triple posting. -TK]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:24 pm Reply with quote
The Japanese companies (the bigger ones) will never go under because they still have otaku support, which will remain unwavering.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:36 pm Reply with quote
poehitman wrote:


What I believe needs to happen is that the Japanese companies need to either open up a US branch or they can purchase an existing US company. It would probably be a more viable business model.

[EDIT: Learn how to use the Edit button instead of triple posting. -TK]


Well I do know that at least a few series (especially older ones) work like I described, newer ones may have closer distributor interaction (like Ful Metal Alchemist and Phantom this year) Which is what we want.

I believe however that it would go the other way around though that it be an R1 distributor buying in (or more into) an existing anime production company. (See Funimation and Gonzo as an example of buying in) Or set-up shop there themselves (kinda like what Disney-Japan did moved from licensing products to making their own.) So if we put what you want into context then it would be like Geneon USA or Bandai USA doing animation work in the NA market for the NA market over what they are doing now (although doesn't Bandai do Ben 10?....)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1821
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:16 pm Reply with quote
LordRedhand wrote:
(although doesn't Bandai do Ben 10?....)


I think Bandai just does the toys. The show itself is owned by Cartoon Network/Warner Bros.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6872
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:21 pm Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
At least for this series, I'm not seeing any complete fansub releases at resolutions beyond 704x400, so 853x480 on DVD is better to start with.


Isn't 720x480 the maximum resolution on NTSC DVDs?
Technically yes, but (anamorphic) resizing makes the display resolution 853x480. If they all displayed at 720x480, you'd get video with 1.5:1 aspect ratio, instead of 16:9, 4:3, 1.85:1, or 2.35:1.

poehitman wrote:
I always point this out. It's not theft. Anime doesn't begin it's airing in a theatre (most of the time). It's the same as me taping a show that I like and watching it later. If you want me to buy that show when you release it on DVD, you need to offer me something substantial. Slightly better resolution and a paid translator isn't substantial.
I left out the theft/piracy concerns from my previous post, as those can be argued until long after the cows come home. But as others have mentioned, buying a DVD gives money back to the studios and creators. Watching a fansub does not. Also, if you tape something like Lost or 24 off TV, do you demand that they create a version in another language in order to give you "something substantial" before you'll buy it on DVD?

Quote:
And the majority of fansubs I see have perfectly legible fansubs. And the only difference between a fansubber and a company translator is that one is paid and the other isn't.
Riiiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtt Rolling Eyes I assume you're fluent enough in Japanese to be able to make that statement? Pro translators are either well-educated Japanese native speakers, or non-native speakers who have degrees in Japanese linguistics/literature/whatever and/or have spent time living in Japan to truly experience and understand the culture. Fansub translators could share some of those traits, but they could also be random jokers who come in off the virtual streets. Pro translators have access to written recording scripts to supplement the audio, and the approval and cooperation of the producing studios, including consultation with directors/writers when something's unclear. Fansub translators only have the audio, and maybe the closed captions to work with.

Legibility: Take Aria the Animation, another sub-only Nozomi release. Nozomi's subs are in the standard yellow and white styles. Easily readable, all the time. On the other hand, the fansub release, which is pretty good overall, decided it would be wise to "fit" the anime by using blue subtitles...in a series overflowing with sky and water scenery! Yeah, quite a few fansubs are legible. But the many that aren't leave me longing for good-ol DVD-yellow, or at least older fansub styles from the time before the "it's softsubbed, so you can take a bunch of tedious steps to change the styles!" cop-out existed.

Translation: While fansubs certainly can be at the same or higher levels as the pros, professional subs will give you at least a minimum standard of accuracy and quality. Fansubs are all over the map. Have you seen any DVDs that cut out the openings and endings on the basis of "our TLer doesn't do songs"? Even the best fansubs have places where I can tell that the pros had it right.

Let's take a quote from the Haruhi fansubs by a.f.k., which are hardly bad fansubs. In fact they're among the best works of subtitled anime, fan- or pro-, that I've ever seen. This is from "Remote Island Syndrome, Part 1" at 06:50.
Quote:
Besides, a manor that would satisfy Haruhi's expectations...
It would probably look like some gaudy building designed after three straight all-nighters...and during an alcohol-induced stupor while periodically dozing off.
Now let's take a look at the R1 version:
Quote:
If it's a mansion she's expecting, it's probably really strange...what an alcoholic Gaudi would design after being up 72 hours.
Still think the only difference is that one's paid and the other isn't? Even if Rika Takahashi (the R1 TL) didn't know who Gaudi was ahead of time, she would've been able to contact someone on the Japanese side and ask, "What's this 'GAUDII' in the script supposed to mean?"

I don't mean to pick on Strato here; I wanted an example from a top-of-the-line fansub. If I'd used some old AnimeJunkies stuff, the response would've been, "well those guys suck, they're not representative of fansubs as a whole."

poehitman wrote:
As for the video quality, the DVD quality doesn't make much difference with animated video. At least, not enough for me to shell out 20-30 bucks for 3-6 episodes. Plus most anime these days is being broadcast in HD, so DVD quality video makes even less of a difference.

Yes, I'm aware that many shows these days are being aired in crappy station upscales and re-filtered by fansub encoders to make presentable 1280x720 releases. (Along with a choice few actually created and aired in true HD.) Even at the fansub level, HDTV releases have been supplanted by DVD-rip versions for some shows like Myself; Yourself and Secret of Haruka Nogizaka.

My point was, for Rental Magica, there are no HD fansubs. So DVDs do represent better A/V quality. Especially audio, as ac3 is better than the lossy codecs like mp3/vorbis/aac that you'd get in the fansubs. And they're not asking you to shell out 20-30 bucks for 3-6 episodes, they're asking you to shell out 35-50 bucks for 12 episodes. On a per episode basis, you're looking at a difference of $3.33 - $10 per episode vs. $2.92 - $4.17.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Quark



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: British Columbia, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:01 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:

Legibility: Take Aria the Animation, another sub-only Nozomi release. Nozomi's subs are in the standard yellow and white styles. Easily readable, all the time. On the other hand, the fansub release, which is pretty good overall, decided it would be wise to "fit" the anime by using blue subtitles...in a series overflowing with sky and water scenery! Yeah, quite a few fansubs are legible. But the many that aren't leave me longing for good-ol DVD-yellow


But you know full well that some fansub fan is going to wander in here saying "Yeah, but the yellow subtitles are so ugly, therefore, I refuse to buy the DVD" which is an argument that I can not wrap my head around. Legible, easy to read, clear subtitles are ugly. Right.
I for one dislike fansubs and prefer R1s for the same reason you stated - I find the subtitles used to be overly gimmicky, distracting, and irritating. Really, I just want to read what's being said, I don't want to see flowery script, changing colours, and constant translation notes of stuff that could have just been translated in the script. One of the worst offenders of this was a Higurashi fansub that insisted on using different coloured subtitles for each character, according to hair colour - eg, Rika had blue subs, Mion had green, etc. There just isn't a need for it, and for me, it distracts from the show.
That being said, I think THE worst blunder I've seen regarding subtitles was a professionally released live-action movie that decided to use white subtitles, without a black border around them. And unfortunately, there were scenes in the movie that had a lot of white bits in them, hence rendering the subtitles unreadable. I'd rather have the gimmicky fansubs over those horrible white borderless subs anyday.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:41 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
I don't mean to pick on Strato here; I wanted an example from a top-of-the-line fansub. If I'd used some old AnimeJunkies stuff, the response would've been, "well those guys suck, they're not representative of fansubs as a whole."


I'd use them as an example as well anyway; they're perfect proof that fansubs can't be relied on for quality and accuracy.

Quark wrote:
I for one dislike fansubs and prefer R1s for the same reason you stated - I find the subtitles used to be overly gimmicky, distracting, and irritating. Really, I just want to read what's being said, I don't want to see flowery script, changing colours, and constant translation notes of stuff that could have just been translated in the script. One of the worst offenders of this was a Higurashi fansub that insisted on using different coloured subtitles for each character, according to hair colour - eg, Rika had blue subs, Mion had green, etc. There just isn't a need for it, and for me, it distracts from the show.


I agree totally here. I've heard people defend colour coding subtitles by the character whose speech it is by saying that it's handy to indicate who's saying what. I honestly don't know what makes them think we can't tell without the colour coding. Even the arguments of watching in a noisy environment or with the sound muted don't convince me. I have no trouble telling, and I've watched things with subtitles for the hearing impaired (yes, monochrome closed captions) on mute.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:56 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
But as others have mentioned, buying a DVD gives money back to the studios and creators.

common assumption but.. this is not true.. at all.

Quote:
And they're not asking you to shell out 20-30 bucks for 3-6 episodes, they're asking you to shell out 35-50 bucks for 12 episodes. On a per episode basis, you're looking at a difference of $3.33 - $10 per episode vs. $2.92 - $4.17.

$50 for a half season is too high even for one with dubs. The actual sale price at rightstuff is better at $37.49 for 12 eps. Though I still think it's a bit pricey. $30 would be perfect for the initial release.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fuuma_monou



Joined: 26 Dec 2005
Posts: 1821
Location: Quezon City, Philippines
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:04 am Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
But as others have mentioned, buying a DVD gives money back to the studios and creators.

common assumption but.. this is not true.. at all.


Really? I'd like to see this explained.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:22 am Reply with quote
Quark wrote:
But you know full well that some fansub fan is going to wander in here saying "Yeah, but the yellow subtitles are so ugly, therefore, I refuse to buy the DVD" which is an argument that I can not wrap my head around. Legible, easy to read, clear subtitles are ugly. Right.

I for one dislike fansubs and prefer R1s for the same reason you stated - I find the subtitles used to be overly gimmicky, distracting, and irritating. Really, I just want to read what's being said, I don't want to see flowery script, changing colours, and constant translation notes of stuff that could have just been translated in the script.


Like Zalis mentioned though, quite a few are legible. In fact I'd say the majority are perfectly legible now. My issue with DVD vobsubs is not the plain yellow-with-black-borders style. It's the super chunky and blocky borders used and inherent limitations in positioning/tracking. (when there are multiple subs in different context that need to be displayed simultaneously, it becomes a mess with vobsubs, which occasionally occurs in some R1 releases).

Now as far as the usage of notes goes. I am firmly an advocate of brief on screen notes. Most of the notes are there because it's impossible to incorporate them into the translation. I'd rather have something that briefly explains the point in context rather watch the entire episode in ignorance then go back and forth and rewatch parts while reading some offline booklet and try to recall the scene. The official TLer for the R1 Excel Saga must've thought the same too.
(And any lengthy explanation can simply use a note that references the full explanation elsewhere. Some fansubs provide such explanations in offline/website notes or at the end of the episode)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:00 am Reply with quote
fuuma_monou wrote:
configspace wrote:
Zalis116 wrote:
But as others have mentioned, buying a DVD gives money back to the studios and creators.

common assumption but.. this is not true.. at all.


Really? I'd like to see this explained.

Your money goes to the R1 licensees who pay the R2 licensors who are comprised of production committees (not to be confused with production studios) and sponsors. The studios/creators/staff are paid some small (~16%) fixed portion of the production budget and that's it. They don't get royalties because they don't hold any rights, unless the studios fully financed the work themselves.
(from japantimes, which was also featured here on ANN I think)
Quote:
One is the lack of copyrights attributed to production agencies — copyrights are divvied up among sponsors, a system widely criticized for robbing the actual creators of any secondary-use benefits, not to mention motivation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group