Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2008-11-21]
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abynormal
 Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
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I have an easy way to judge fansub quality:
If the grammar is bad, nonsensical, or they insert txtspk in place of articles or pronouns, it's a bad fansub. No contest. Additional points if they overdo the color commentaries during the show. I don't know much Japanese, but I do know vagaries are inherent in the language and choosing the best interpretation possible can be a real chore, especially for speed subbers. As long as it makes sense, it's all good to me. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Edit: I need to lurk more.
Last edited by dtm42 on Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gilaskan
Posts: 7 |
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I agree with every statement. I'm still baffled by the people who genuinely like her. Liking the show because she's an interesting character? Reasonable enough. Liking the show because you like her? Idiotic; were she a real person, NO one would like her. |
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Gilaskan
Posts: 7 |
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The flake didn't sign off as Ned Flanders, Zac added that himself. Check back to the article and you'll see that it's in bold, suggesting that it's what Zac wrote, not the flake himself. |
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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that was Zac, not the flake. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Darnit, that's what I get for speed reading. My apologies. |
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konkonsn
 Posts: 172 Location: Illinois |
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It probably doesn't hurt as much as kneeing a man, but it still hurts for us women. I mean, there's a bone right there, and we don't have a large amount of (admittedly, very sensitive tissue) to cushion it. Really, any of Yuu Watase's female protagonists would qualify as most hated character for me. They're all the same person anyway. Maybe I should complain about CLAMP's male Miaka's...Kamui especially. -_- Stop getting molested and do something! |
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ice9
 Posts: 21 |
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For the first question, the one about translation quality: As a general rule, I usually find commercial translations superior to fansubs, even the good ones, mostly due to the use of swear words in unnecessary situations. However, I also prefer my translations to have honorifics because I don't think we have sufficient English-language equivalents. All to often I see -san translated as Miss or Mister, which we almost never use in informal situations (such as talking to classmates). I also find that for a few select groups (Live-Evil in particular) I prefer their translations for aesthetic reasons. Whether or not their translations are closer to the Japanese, I prefer the subtler connotations they use in their word choice.
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2093 |
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Except as a previous poster pointed out (in hopes that no one would make this mistake, but so much for that), Kyon should really be considered the main protagonist. He's present in every scene and narrates the story. Yes, the show is called Haruhi, but do you think Sauron is the main protagonist of Lord of the Rings? 
Also, you might want to read the light novels before making full judgement calls on Haruhi's character. Plus, "poor Kyon"? He flat out admits that he has nothing better to do with his life and often shows that he likes the people there despite their sometimes irritating behavior (mainly from Haruhi and Kouzimi), gets to hang out every day with three girls who he considers attractive, and also gets bragging rights as spoiler[the savior of the world (by kissing Haruhi).] Yeah, what a horrible life he leads...... 
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Dessa
 Posts: 4438 |
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While I understand the arguments being made for and against fansubs, there are some things that blatantly stand out to me in a few situations:
D.Gray-man and xxxHolic by Shinsen-subs: One of my biggest problems with their subs is their seeming insistence on "properly" translating things. Standing out to me are "Demon" vs "Akuma" and "Alestair Crowly" vs. "Alystar Krory" (unsure of spellings) in DGM and "inevitable" vs "hitsuzen" in Holic. For the first one, one would initially think of it as a preference. However, there is a difference when it is clearly written, in English, on-screen as "akuma." The same is true of the second, Krory's name, which is also on-screen. I have seen people argue that the name was "supposed to be" the same as the historical figure, but when the mangaka puts it in English, I sorta take it to be the spelling they show. The last one, also, is a bit of preference, but I would translate "hitsuzen" more as "only possible outcome" or something a little more in-depth as "inevitable" (which, btw, "hitsuzen" is more of a noun, and they're translating it with an adjective). It is of note that none of the official manga releases for these two titles use the same translations/spellings as Shinsen. Tales of the Abyss: TotA is an interesting case, because the game has already been translated, localized, and released. However, I have seen some groups translate things that are so often repeated in the game that I have no problem reciting them (still working on being able to recite it in Japanese) completely different, even to the point of it being incorrect, not only by "official" translation, but even to the point of being inaccurate as per the series' story! I actually objected and pointed out that to one of the groups on their website, and was told that they would make sure that their translators did their "research" after that. In this case, I question that people are subbing something that's already had one form officially translated, when they don't even know the source material. |
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eaglestorm
 Posts: 133 |
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Some groups seems to think the more encyclopaedic their releases are, the more impressed the fans will be. I have my good friend, Wiki, thank you very much, for any infos in a language that I can read. But is it necessary to show the groups' names? 
I don't see anything wrong with using honorifics. An anime fan will understand that and get it's implied meaning. Or should the fansubbers translate it into Kenji-boy, Yukari-girl, big bro Sasuke, etc. just to be precise? But I take it you are saying to get rid of them totally so the names are completely westernized, which will make them lose their nuances. Treat them as part of their names if it bothers you. As for karaoke, who really watch them unless you want to sing along with every episodes. Fonts, I tend to agree that some do use fonts that are too big, colorful and flowery but those are usually limited to the newer and less experienced groups. Explanation notes, I feel, is a must. I want to know and understand right there and then. Not later, when I might have forgotten what or where it's about. A joke dialog without the proper context usually ceased to be funny. Likewise, if there's something I do not understand, I want to know right away so I can properly grasp it instead of being left confused till the end of the show. A decent sub, whether professional or fansubbed, is one that doesn't make me cringe. It really doesn't matter a whole lot to those who do not understand the language if the translations are 100% accurate, so long as we get the gist of it. And can enjoy it. What I'm sure most people refers to as poor translations are actually the English used in the translations, both grammatically and in the spellings. As someone pointed out, above, a good editor is necessary to make a bad translation job good, and the subs enjoyable. It doesn't have to be Oxford English quality but the mistakes must also not be glaringly obvious throughout. A good sub is one where after the closing credits, I had enjoyed myself. |
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escahime65
 Posts: 87 Location: Iowa |
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Most annoying anime character?
No. 1 is definitely Saya from Blood+. What a wet blanket! I couldn't stand her whining and moaning, :"Why do I have to fight?" and "I wish this would all just go away so we can be a real family." Why do you have to fight? Because I'm watching a show about fighting monsters and you're the main character! That's why! 50+ episodes of her whining, I don't know how I managed to make it through. I also hated how she totally took Haji for granted. He did everything for her and she treated him like a piece of furniture. No. 2 would be Shu from Now and Then, Here and There. Talk about blind optimism! Transported to a strange world, tortured, forced to fight in a senseless war, experiencing tragedy after tragedy and still saying to Sara, "It'll work out, something good will happen." All after what she went through to boot! I wanted to yell at the tv for him to grow a brain! Reflect on the meaning of life a little! Geez...... Note: These are not direct quotes, just the gist of their attitudes. |
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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This would be more interesting if it were not lifted in its entirety from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0 (the OtaKing videos mentioned before). However, OtaKing went a bit overboard. All his examples are the very worst cases, and I assume as with any other profession that his quoting of authorities is one-sided to serve his own opinion. His vehemence alone makes him suspect. I don't care what's considered "right" in the business, anyway. The on-screen notes are rarely distracting and certainly add to my enjoyment of the show (note that some R1 DVDs have on-screen notes as well, which are optional). I think honorifics should be included because we truly do not have equivalents. But that's primarily because of the one point that invalidates his argument against notes and honorifics anyway: The comparison with material in other languages. I don't watch 10 Chinese or Spanish shows a week, but if I did, I probably would want the translations to be more authentic (as opposed to localized), to include source language that was impossible to translate directly in screen space available, and to provide a reasonable amount of contextual information. The occasional Chinese or French subtitled movie doesn't warrant learning the foreign words in order to understand the culture in more depth, because that knowledge will likely never be used again. But when one does watch 8 Japanese series a week, those notes and the Japanese language do pay off in increased enjoyment of subsequent series. That's the problem with analogies. In this case, there isn't one because no other foreign form of entertainment has engendered a comparable following to anime. It is a unique situation. |
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Labbes
 Posts: 890 |
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In the "Faust" anthology, hitsuzen is not translated at all, which I found rather distracting. It is explained, but it never is directly translated. However, I can't understand at all why one would want to keep the crude name of "Alystar Krory". Considering the themes of DGM, it is blatantly obvious who is meant- Aleister Crowley. And that Shinsen can do better when translating "Akuma" becomes clear in Kuroshitsuji, where they translated the catchphrase of Sebastien as "I am one hell of a butler". That was hilarious 
I can't believe you can be serious on this one. If you were forced to fight, tortured and nearly killed several times, do you think there would be ANY way, ANY way at all to stay sane besides stoical optimism? His attitude does turn things to the better, in the long run, you know? |
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retty
 Posts: 118 Location: Cheshire, UK |
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And what about non-anime fans who are watching the DVD? And why should anime fans have to put up with 'sempai' when it's not the language it's supposed to be in. It stands out and sounds utterly stupid. And it's not rocket science, why would anyone translate oneechan into 'big sis'. Is that how we speak here? No, we call our siblings by their names, which is what they do in good subs. How on earth does that lose any meaning when no such meaning even exists in English? |
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), annoying karaoke subtitles and other text animation effects (Kids, there's a reason why proper DVD subtitles are in plain fonts), overly literal translations (Example: Someone's line is translated as "You were seeing a dream". Why can't they just write "You were dreaming"?), and in situ explanation notes (Do we REALLY need all those explanation notes cluttering up the screen? If you're going to put explanation notes in, just put them in an accompanying text file!). 
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