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NEWS: ADV Files 3rd-Party Claim in Funimation's Lawsuit


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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:50 pm Reply with quote
Yeah playing dead can only work for so long. One has to start breathing again at some point, especially when they come to carve up your carcase. Laughing
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:28 pm Reply with quote
luffypirate85 wrote:

...and the new(er) MS IGLOO! Also, Super Robot War: The Inspector. They would be the only company with the testicular fortitude to go for it.


I was never impressed with their release of Super Robot Wars, for 35 dollars you could get three episodes sub only for slightly above average video. They where demanding a premium without giving a premium release.
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Prede



Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 388
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:29 pm Reply with quote
Maigraith wrote:
...I'm a little confused, why do people seem so angry if Funi did try to take over ADV? As long as it wasn't by illegal means, it's an acceptable(and common) business practice to takeover an existing company.

The other thing is, if Funi paid money for ADV's debt to Sojitz(?) but ADV says the debt was a con by Sojitz, mayhaps they should get together to pursue getting that Sojitz thing so Funi can get their money back and ADV can get what they deserve(the erasing of their debt or at least lowering of it).

Then again I could be missing the point entirely, I'm not well versed in all this.


No that's a garbage business practice. How about I go pay off the bank you have your mortgage with in order to then own your house. Now you'll have to make payments to me, your rival, and deal with me. AND according to ADV's claims it was illegal.

Also for those who care, a lot of what ADV did closely resembles the GM restructuring, just without government assistance and with no company ever filing for bankruptcy.


Last edited by Prede on Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:34 pm Reply with quote
Conan-san wrote:
Technically speaking, that should totaly break that whole newco thing Sentai's been trying to pull and that would mean that they would have to throw the towel in something closely resembling a dignified manor.

Course Texas is another freaking reality onto itself so whatever.



You do know that what you just said was very ignorant.
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jsc315



Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:52 pm Reply with quote
I smell some trolls here mods may want to get that lock button ready soon.

On to the topic at hand. This is just depressing. 2012 has just been nothing but bad news for anime fans in general. Be it young or old fans of anime in the end we the fans loose from lawsuits like these.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:22 pm Reply with quote
jsc315 wrote:
I smell some trolls here mods may want to get that lock button ready soon.

On to the topic at hand. This is just depressing. 2012 has just been nothing but bad news for anime fans in general. Be it young or old fans of anime in the end we the fans loose from lawsuits like these.


Yeah,I know.

I wouldn't worry too much about these lawsuits. Federal indicates that a settlement will be reached.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:27 pm Reply with quote
Prede wrote:
Also for those who care, a lot of what ADV did closely resembles the GM restructuring, just without government assistance and with no company ever filing for bankruptcy.
Well maybe , but it's still trading under "General Motors" on the NYSE. Wink
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:27 pm Reply with quote
samuelp wrote:
If the rest of the R1 industry dies, it will be replaced by (perhaps) half hearted attempts to market stuff directly in the US by Japanese companies.
Some will work, some will fail, but the days of people starting a "licensing" based business for disc media with dubbing are long gone.
The buy-in is too pricey and the upside is too bleak with no decent chance of TV airings.


Those attempts, when given decent treatment, can churn out quality products. The other side of the coin are lowkey business that gobble up older titles and release on a smaller scale. Neither of these practices satisfy the middle ground, but it's better than the market being entirely forsaken. Even when the chance of TV airings were higher, how many shows were licensed versus aired on basic cable channels? 100 to 1? 200 to 1? More importantly is what's going to happen to disc media, like you said. Will streaming ever become truly profitable, profitable enough to cover costs and provide enough to produce more? You can't take risks (expensive risks) if you're only just taking in enough. With TV and film, you have different avenues to get your product seen, but what does the industry that survives on direct-to-disc do when they cannot get on TV except for painfully small doses and certainly cannot get into theaters?

I don't think this lawsuit has "the best intentions of industry" in mind, it's just business, nothing personal.

GrilledEelHamatsu wrote:
I wouldn't worry too much about these lawsuits. Federal indicates that a settlement will be reached.


For how much, and to whom?
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Angel M Cazares



Joined: 23 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:18 pm Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Will streaming ever become truly profitable, profitable enough to cover costs and provide enough to produce more? You can't take risks (expensive risks) if you're only just taking in enough.


What do you mean by produce? Are you talking about if the profit generated by streaming will one day be able to actually finance anime? If you are talking about a company like Crunchyroll, I am assuming they are mainly interested in generating enough revenue to pay for streaming rights (which I assume are way cheaper than distribution rights to sell discs).

I might have misunderstood your comment, but I do not see streaming revenue playing a big role in producing/financing anime right now; if that is what you mean.
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
That was the 2000s. The economy's changed a lot since then.
I was referring to from the 2000's to now. They've actually been doing better the past few years than in the early 2000's. Aniplex has been raking in plenty of money, especially when they had Fate/Zero, Madoka, and Nisemonogatari for example.
Quote:
Perhaps, but it was a limited quantity, so it's not really indicative of a hit. If they had excess copies, I'd imagine GoS would be doing worse here.
Though it was 800 some copies of a $400 Blu-ray Box. Most people thought it would have sold like 10 copies, but no, it sold out. I wonder how many people wanted it as months after it sold out at Rightstuf, it sold out in Japan, and the new copies are going for inflated prices there.
Quote:
Evidently not very rich at all, as there are still plenty of R1 copies of Madoka still available.
We don't know how many were printed though. But it's possible they decided to do a mass limited edition printing, kinda like what Bandai Visual USA did (We already are seeing how some limited stuff from them years after they went under is still available at Rightstuf like the Patlabor movie LE's).
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:47 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
I might have misunderstood your comment, but I do not see streaming revenue playing a big role in producing/financing anime right now; if that is what you mean.


That is what I mean. If disc sales decline, streaming will not be enough to put revenue back in to keep new production up. Definitely not on the same scale as licensing for home video rights.

Maybe the big question here: how long can serious Japanese collectors keep this up? They've been doing well for some 25 years, but streaming and downloading can only increase as Japan opens to the ideas.
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GrilledEelHamatsu



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 703
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:51 pm Reply with quote
@Wal. A settlement would result in 3 things:

1. Federal court determines that both labels were treated with unethtical behavior by ARM. ADV with a "Breach-off-Contract" ethics violation attempted hostile takeover. And Funimation offered Poor,overpriced investment properties with unprofitable returns & then attempting to sever all legal loopholes in property ownership.

2. Federal also means that ARM will be involved at some point. And ADV will be able to argue that ARM was unethtical.

3. A settlement between the two label regarding their part of the deal will be reached.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15313
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Magraith:
Quote:
...I'm a little confused, why do people seem so angry if Funi did try to take over ADV? As long as it wasn't by illegal means, it's an acceptable(and common) business practice to takeover an existing company.


When mergers happen, people get laid off, and you get crappier quality of service in the name of "efficiency".

Quote:
mayhaps they should get together to pursue getting that Sojitz thing so Funi can get their money back and ADV can get what they deserve(the erasing of their debt or at least lowering of it).


They could, but FUNi is Sojitz' bitch, so that won't happen.

link: People aren't trashing the voice actors' themselves, just the choice of dubs.

samuel:
Quote:
If the rest of the R1 industry dies, it will be replaced by (perhaps) half hearted attempts to market stuff directly in the US by Japanese companies.


That's exactly what Sojitz wants.

Doug:
Quote:
Agreed and I also do not get what people have against Funi to go under because they do not have bad business practices.


Interfering in ADV's attempted deal with Geneon sounds pretty anti-business to me.

Quote:
Sentai or ADV has no Dragonball Z and when basically Funi became the number one after ADV went bankrupt that was their fault and nothing more.


Again, it wasn't Sentai/ADV's fault. The Japanese companies acted in bad faith, in order to destroy them, so they wouldn't have to negotiate any terms in the R1 companies' favor.

luffy:
Quote:
I certainly don't wish bankruptcy on either of the parties, but deep inside I wish that Bandai Visual USA would make a comeback.


Why? So they can steal and overcharge for lucrative licenses from Bandai Entertainment and then sink BE as petty revenge, because it ends up being more profitable than them? 'Cus if that's what you want, then BVUSA never really left.

Shana:
Quote:
They've actually been doing better the past few years than in the early 2000's. Aniplex has been raking in plenty of money, especially when they had Fate/Zero, Madoka, and Nisemonogatari for example.


If they were raking in money, then they wouldn't be expanding here. Wouldn't be surprised if most of those productions ended up costing more than they got back in return, even with higher home video fees.

Quote:
I wonder how many people wanted it as months after it sold out at Rightstuf, it sold out in Japan, and the new copies are going for inflated prices there.


And how many copies were available in Japan? Aniplex is just trying to cash in on an inflated secondary markets. And unless you're E-Bay, that's bound to bite you in the ass eventually.
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BigOnAnime
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 1230
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:57 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
If they were raking in money, then they wouldn't be expanding here. Wouldn't be surprised if most of those productions ended up costing more than they got back in return, even with higher home video fees.
Ever heard of trying to get even more money? That's one reason why they probably set up a branch here.

Also you really think with the kind of sales Nisemonogatari, Fate/Zero, and Madoka had they didn't turn out any profit? They're in the top 6 best-selling anime of the 2000's (Meaning so far this century). These shows sold way more than what you need to break even, even on the high end for production costs ($300,000 per episode).
Quote:
And how many copies were available in Japan? Aniplex is just trying to cash in on an inflated secondary markets. And unless you're E-Bay, that's bound to bite you in the ass eventually.
The only sales stats we saw was 25000+ sold in the first week, and in this list (It's at the bottom), it's around 27000, so I'd say around 30000 copies.
animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-12-21/top-selling-blu-ray-discs-in-japan/2011
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:05 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:

If they were raking in money, then they wouldn't be expanding here. Wouldn't be surprised if most of those productions ended up costing more than they got back in return, even with higher home video fees.


And, if they were raking in money, why would they need to license their properties to western companies? They've been licensing their stuff before opening up an American branch.

Also, if Aniplex was losing money on a lot of the stuff they helped produced, do you think they'd still be around? Or even better, if they did not make a decent return from Bakemonogatari, do you think they'd pony up the money to help produce Nisemonogatari?

Like ShanaFan mentioned - some of the stuff they have produced have been the best selling shows in a while.
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