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Hey, Answerman! - Box Office Mojo-ka Magica

With all this talk of purported objectivity, I wonder if dtm42 (or anyone else) is willing to say whether or not certain films by Jean-Luc Godard (Breathless, Contempt), Andrei Tarkovsky (Mirror, Stalker), Michelangelo Antonioni (L'avventura), and so on are objectively "good" or "bad" if we want to argue for an objective, systematic measurement of quality.

...then I'd say it would be a good idea to stop hijacking the thread regarding this matter.

With all this talk of purported objectivity, I wonder if dtm42 (or anyone else) is willing to say whether or not certain films by Jean-Luc Godard (Breathless, Contempt), Andrei Tarkovsky (Mirror, Stalker), Michelangelo Antonioni (L'avventura), and so on are objectively "good" or "bad" if we want to argue for an objective, systematic measurement of quality.

Your lack of judgement isn't surprising given that you (incorrectly) believe objectivity doesn't exist in the first place.

Personally, I'm enjoying Neon Alley so far. Not that there aren't a few issues like the buffering and commercial placement. The first 2 days, the service was good but last night we had a lot of buffering problems. Also, it seems they keep changing the schedule around; I hope they get a more permanent one in place soon.

While VOD would be nice (and might happen, eventually) I personally don't mind a schedule, probably because I'm an older fan and can remember having to adhere to one. The only place I regularly watch streamed anime is Netflix but I don't watch it or even my dvds that much. So when it's always there, it's easy to not watch it. (Course that's not so much the case with Netflix, since they remove stuff after a while.) So, for me, it's like being a kid again and watching Saturday morning cartoons, except it's on all the time.

Anyway, they do repeat episodes, plus I believe these shows are or will be on dvd/blu-ray, which I think may be the main reason they started the channel in the first place. Of course, it may become VOD at some point and if successful, go onto other platforms.

I think Viz has been really clear from the beginning that Neon Alley was a TV channel not an on demand service. I think the idea is good; my main problem with anime channels on TV in the past is that I live in a small town where anime channels were never offered. Neon Alley bypasses that problem and now anyone with a PS3 and internet connection can access an anime channel if they want.

Good article, overall, however one thing does rub this old anime fan the wrong way somewhat:

Quote:

What if I only wanted to watch Tiger & Bunny or Berserk? I'd have to comb through their schedule list and plan ahead. THIS IS 2012. NO ONE DOES THIS ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS IRRELEVANT. We are spoiled now.

Well, call me old-fashioned, since I do actually watch CW's Vortexx and Adult Swim's Toonami every weekend. Since this is what I grew up on in the 80's and 90's, I find myself enjoying TV channel format more and more. Not that I don't watch anime on the Internet (although I stick with Hulu and Crunchyroll's free ad-supported services), but I for one was glad that Toonami returned the way it was meant to be. So what if I could see all of those shows on demand? That's not really the point.

Never saw any Tarkovsky sadly, love Breatless (but not a fan of Godard in general, prefer Truffaut in every way possible), also loved L'Avventura

But as for your question whether we can say if these films are objectively good or bad, we can't. We can however say that they are important to film.

The whole French/European New Wave was an exciting and creative time for film in general. Now I wonder what do you think are anime equivalents?

Objective truth is not something that is determined by consensus. There cannot be multiple objective truths, just the one. You can have your beliefs, your opinions, but they can be wrong. Infinite Stratos cannot be both good and bad. It is just bad, because that's what it is. You believing differently does not change that fact, just like if you believed the world is flat would not actually make it flat.

Exactly! In fact, I mention all of this to illustrate how silly it is suggest whether we can determine a work of art is objectively good or bad.

And this isn't covering some of Tarkovsky's other films, or difficult works by Godard, Antonioni, Alain Renais, Glauber Rocha, Nagisa Oshima, Edward Yang, Tsai Ming-liang, Chris Marker, etc.

I know that's name-dropping a lot, and nearly all people on here won't recognize half (if any) of those names,

You should give Solaris a try if you are curious about Tarkovsky. It's relatively accessible, and feels like a primer for his other films.

As for your question, based on the "new waves" of film movements, I think we can set the criteria to be: (1) formally distinctive and roughly "experimental" styles and (2) works that are socially, politically or philosophically critical of their subjects (and culture). Two who immediately come to mind are Mamoru Oshii (Patlabor, Ghost in the Shell, Sky Crawlers) and Hiroshi Hamasaki (Texhnolyze, Shigurui). Hideaki Anno's Evangelion also qualifies, as does Ikuhara's Utena (I'm not as certain about Penguindrum). Aesthetically they all are far more film-minded than most other anime productions, and all are certainly critical of Japanese society (be it patriarchy, military attitudes, sexuality, hierarchy, social inertia, ideological rigidity, etc.)

Although I find Satoshi Kon to be not as formally adventurous and more narratively accessible, I think arguments could be made for him. Perhaps Masaaki Yuasa and other Studio 4C cohorts, although I'm uncertain about them fitting under the second criteria.

Edit: Forgot about Lain. That's an obvious one.

There are objective truths like "the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening" or "dogs are kept as pets"