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NEWS: Canada Outlines Which Anime Can Cross Border


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Ganryu



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:04 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
@whoever the hell it was that said morality becoming higher means less tolerance:
How is tolerance not morality? Tolerance is a virtue. Actually, I don't much like tolerance, personally. I don't want to be tolerated. I want to be respected. Point is, tolerance is part of morality. The only way you could think otherwise is if you follow the position of a Christian minority who considers sex to be the only issue that falls under the morality umbrella.


I don't get what you're trying to say here.

vashfanatic wrote:
I think the only question I'd have on Canada's censorship policies is, on whom does the burden of proof rest?


I think the more important question to the canadian government is: Why are you so intent to ruin people's lives over some drawings?

This reminds me of the whole effing deal with the mohammed caricatures except it's now the west doing the punishing.

vashfanatic wrote:
Personally, I'd want it to rest with the government. The government has to prove that the content is degrading, harmful, and lacking in artistic or medical merit before they can ban it. The individual should not have to prove that it isn't degrading or harmful and that it has merit.


I can pretty much agree with this in its entirety.

vashfanatic wrote:
Again, all of this is designed to ensure that as little as possible is prohibited. Negima, however riske it may get, has a story and is a comedy; that gives it merit beyond pornography, no matter how young the characters might be.


Negima is likely safe from the hysteria, though it might be affected if some of those crazy person take note of it and start complaining.

It's always easier to ban than to legalize.

vashfanatic wrote:
Personally, my feeling that is that the argument that characters aren't real unless they're real people... well, it's insulting to any writer who goes to the effort of trying to cmake a character feel real. You laugh, cry, and even get aroused because the character feels real to you. But this gets us into the impossible world of somehow determining what you're thinking when you read something, so I'm not saying that should be the standard. I'm just saying that there exists a middle ground of characters that are real in an emotional or mental sense. Which sounds weird, I know. But think how not everyone really gets why a lot of us find drawn characters to be hot; "realness" is in the mind of the beholder.


Why does it matter whether or not the character is real to the reader or the writer or whoever? You can't legislate based on what people FEEL is real or not. "It wasn't murder, your honour! I thought he wasn't a real person!" All that matters is if the human being actually exists or not.

vashfanatic wrote:
And lastly, I do think that sexual degradation is a whole other level of bad beyond violence. Not sex period, but rape and other forms of sexual abuse are, to quote a certain TV show, "considered especially heinous." It's the element of corrupting something that ought to be wonderful that makes our skins crawl, I think. When this kind of sexual violation then gets used to elicit arousal, we're even more appalled. Higurashi, for all its horror, is, well, horror. It's not intended as erotica.


But the law makes no separation between rape, masturbation or whatever. Hence a comic about two fifteen year old "children" having consensual sex would be just as much child porn as a middle aged man raping a toddler.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10424
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:31 pm Reply with quote
BitShifter wrote:
I'm sure that no border guard is going to misinterpret that comical scene as something perv-y or illegal.


He isn't. Because there's no explicit nudity.

Perverted material isn't at issue here. Pornographic material is. The legal definition of pornography in Canada is quite clear.

I don't particularly agree with the Canadian law, but it's much more clear cut than the current mish-mash of laws in the United States. No damn "community standards" that make things legal in one city and completely illegal in some rural neighborhood a few hundred miles away.

eyevocal wrote:
Canadian Customs Agents
I hear you. I've had plenty of unfortunate experiences with Canadian Border Guards, but my most unpleasant experiences have been with the American CBP. It seems that in North America, Canada and the USA, about 50% of the border guards are complete douchebags. American guards gave me trouble for bringing copies of Funimation's DBZ discs in FYI. I travel a lot though, so its no surprises that I've had bad experiences. I think everyone's experiences will vary.

Dakaran wrote:
Go CANADA!
Hey, I like Canada too, but you need to chill out with the "Canada is the best place in the world" BS. There are advantages and disadvantages to living here. And politically speaking, I don't think any Canadian, regardless of how they voted, has any right to call Canada "progressive" as long as Harper is in charge.

-t
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 4:39 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Yeah, it was an oversimplification. Obviously you can draw characters who are adults but otherwise quite flat and with little hair.

It is the reversed scenario to this that may create conflict between ruling and intuition. Put bluntly, the appearance of characters who are somewhat diminutive in some respects — but quite the opposite in others — would either require a refinement of the existing Canadian restrictions or else a revocation. (It would of course have been more reasonable if such rulings did not exist at all, or at least not before it has been established with a degree of soundness that outlawing the material in question would protect certain persons from otherwise inevitable harm. Alas, the will of the lawmakers is not of the sort that can be challenged.)
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rinmackie



Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 1040
Location: in a van! down by the river!
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:02 pm Reply with quote
I think a set of clear cut rules is all well and good, but the question is will the people in charge of enforcing them adhere to them? Someone recently brought up having difficulty with the Negima manga. Even with rules and guidelines, all it will take is some border agent to say "It looks like illegal smut to me!" True, you may be able to argue your case, but why should you have to, and what if you can't?

And let me make it clear, I don't like lolicon and I'm not into the really gross-out stuff, but IT IS FICTION! As long as no real person was involved or harmed, it should be legal. And, of course, access to minors should be restricted. Now, maybe these laws and guidelines are no big deal to some people, and maybe they're right; there is no slippery slope. But history seems to say otherwise.
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Quark



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: British Columbia, Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Ganryu wrote:


I think the more important question to the canadian government is: Why are you so intent to ruin people's lives over some drawings?

This reminds me of the whole effing deal with the mohammed caricatures except it's now the west doing the punishing.


Yeah, cause Customs confiscating stuff, and then sending a letter to the owner explaining why it's been confiscated really does ruin lives. It is definitely on the same level as a terrorist hunting down and murdering someone in cold blood because they had the gall to draw a picture.
Man, it sure is tough living in such an oppressive, terrorist country like Canada.

Seriously, do you guys even think before spouting off this crap? This type of fear mongering, and misinformation doesn't help anyone.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:16 pm Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
And politically speaking, I don't think any Canadian, regardless of how they voted, has any right to call Canada "progressive" as long as Harper is in charge.

-t


Aw come on. I'm not going to pretend Harper is ideal but he's not that bad. He's still relatively progressive on a number of issues. Especially with just a minority government, I hardly think you can claim that Canada is no longer a progressive country.
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Ganryu



Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:20 pm Reply with quote
Quark wrote:
Ganryu wrote:


I think the more important question to the canadian government is: Why are you so intent to ruin people's lives over some drawings?

This reminds me of the whole effing deal with the mohammed caricatures except it's now the west doing the punishing.


Yeah, cause Customs confiscating stuff, and then sending a letter to the owner explaining why it's been confiscated really does ruin lives. It is definitely on the same level as a terrorist hunting down and murdering someone in cold blood because they had the gall to draw a picture.
Man, it sure is tough living in such an oppressive, terrorist country like Canada.

Seriously, do you guys even think before spouting off this crap? This type of fear mongering, and misinformation doesn't help anyone.


Don't intentionally misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm speaking about a ban. I'm speaking about punishing possession.
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jr240483



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 4380
Location: New York City,New York,USA
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 1:15 pm Reply with quote
_V_ wrote:
Many anime series feature adolescent characters who are technically underage;

Evangelion stars 14 year olds; it has no explicit on-screen sex acts involving these characters, there's occasional nudity but its not sexually suggestive.

how would this new law in Canada affect the transmission of Eva and other similar shows?


Well it definately wont be good at all for anime fans. Not good at all. One thing's for sure,cause of this , if Kodomo no Jikan EVER gets dubbed , it'll definately get banned in Canada. Which is kinda stupid.
Hell this whole thing is completely stupid comparing some ecchi series as child porn cause of some themes . Real ones, of course , but this is kinda dumb if you ask me.

Thank god it dont have that in the US thanks to the constitution.
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Quark



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: British Columbia, Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 9:18 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
_V_ wrote:
Many anime series feature adolescent characters who are technically underage;

Evangelion stars 14 year olds; it has no explicit on-screen sex acts involving these characters, there's occasional nudity but its not sexually suggestive.

how would this new law in Canada affect the transmission of Eva and other similar shows?


Well it definately wont be good at all for anime fans. Not good at all. One thing's for sure,cause of this , if Kodomo no Jikan EVER gets dubbed , it'll definately get banned in Canada. Which is kinda stupid.


No. It won't. There is no new law, just clarification on a previous law. Go back and read the article, and the new guide for Canadian Customs. Kodomo no Jikan is not a pornographic series. The obscenity laws only apply to material that is pornographic in nature, and cannot be reasonably justified as a work of art. The guidelines even state that underage nudity is acceptable, as long it doesn't feature sexual activity. Hence, Canadian newspapers can print comics that have 10 year old girls sitting topless in the tub, nipples and all. The laws are not as insane as people are making them out to be.
This whole thread is incredibly frustrating, because it seems like no one bothered to actually properly read the article, and instead just instantly resorted to going "OMG Canada is evil! Show X that had that 10 year old in a bathing suit is so illegal in Canada, and will get you beheaded in their gulags!"
As another poster here said, if you just read the guidelines, and practice common sense, you should be fine.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4439
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Dakaran wrote:
_V_ wrote:
Many anime series feature adolescent characters who are technically underage;

Evangelion stars 14 year olds; it has no explicit on-screen sex acts involving these characters, there's occasional nudity but its not sexually suggestive.

how would this new law in Canada affect the transmission of Eva and other similar shows?


Doesn't affect. Misleading or bad intentions would be a problem but there is none. Unless a lawyer smack me for this statement, that's how laws usually are sanely applied in my country. We don't over do it like the states. We always check the circumstances around it.


Thanks for the overly broad generalization, that's really appreciated.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2010 11:13 pm Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
Thank god it don't have that in the US thanks to the constitution.


Canada has a charter of rights and freedoms too genius. Unfortunately, that doesn't actually prevent this kind of thing completely. Neither does the US constitution you're so proud to wave around. Apparently you weren't paying attention during the whole Handley case.
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