Forum - View topicINTEREST: Cowboy Bebop Writer: Anime Will Die Out in Few Decades
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 363 Location: Finland |
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I wouldn't want anime studios starting to pander American audiences because I'm not American and I like anime partly because it can offer things Hollywood can't and I don't necessarily mean moe. I think I can agree with Jonathan Clements when he said that he buys American movies as American movies. Several anime series have already been released in Arabic countries without pandering, including Moomin, Future Boy Conan, Grendizer, Katri, Girl of the Meadows and several others. I think the Japanese studios should learn from the mistakes that European and American studios made when they started to outsource more and more tv animation first to Japan and later to China and Koreas. At least the Japanese still draw most of the key animation unlike Americans (still talking about tv animation). |
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firedragon54738
Posts: 3113 Location: wisconsin |
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Well he dose have a point
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khaos1019
Posts: 93 |
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I'm the same way. Although this is due to the decline of the American industry, and not so much the Japanese one. I still agree with Sato on some points, it's troubling to see how few really intelligent and exciting series are coming out nowadays. I'll admit some of the slice-of-life/moe stuff that's mostly being produced is entertaining. But compared to series and movies from the late '70s, the '80s and even the '90s, the quality of the work (in terms of character and plot, and even animation in some cases - I'm a sucker for the traditional hand-drawn) is on the decline. |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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Yeah, I can't see it existing in any huge or relevant capacity in the future. If you'll allow me to be an armchair analyst for a moment, there was another article on ANN that described just how little animators in Japan make, despite working about 10 hours a day on average. It'd be totally unsurprising if any new talent that would want to enter that field would quickly leave it because of the terrible compensation.
I do wonder if pay was always that low in the anime industry, though the dwindling size of the anime market and its increasing reliance on the small hardcore NEET niche can't help. With a smaller market, jobs go away and pay gets even smaller... Who would want to work in a field like that? |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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Figure this would be relevant.
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LordRedhand
Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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I'd say you missed the episode of Paranoia Agent that encapsulates this, episode 10: Mellow Maromi In the episode they go over the parts and positions and even some of the demands placed upon those within the industry, however it doesn't end up so positively (one can read it like the response that some "fans" and even some industries are responding to it spoiler[ Thank God it's here! pulls master tape from "gophers" corpse and it doesn't end happily because every member of the staff dies...] |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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First of all, outsourcing tweening or some of the animation is really a different issue than what is supposed to be the crux of this debate. You can argue about the differences in quality (i.e. consistency and the amount of corrections to be done) about those who are invested in anime in Japan and those who aren't outside, but again, that's a different issue.
Secondly, I grew up with and remember the old anime, as in late 80's early 90's. And let me tell you, the idea that "it used to be better in the past" is totally flat out untrue. There are more "gems" now than there ever had been over a decade ago. Thirdly, merchandise like figures has always been THE driving force in the commercial success of anime -- see: animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-04-01/n-america-2007-anime-market-pegged-at-us$2.8-billion So to claim that is was better before due to less commercialization is just wrong. I do agree with some of his points, particularly political involvement, even if it's for promoting the industry or genre but disagree with others. It's interesting to note from the article that he explicitly refrains from criticizing or blaming the element of moe "atmosphere-like" shows like K-On nor the element of fanservice itself, as he stated "many animators are coming from a background in erotic material (doujinshi, eroge or ero-anime/manga). Sexual desire is part of the creative drive." However, when he does go on ranting about escapism and not dealing about real life issues and NEETs or the unemployed... umm.. this is what the majority of fiction entails. I read A LOT of SF and Fantasy, and that argument would apply there and everywhere, though I see nothing to complain about. I mean take dealing with employment or the economy as he mentions as a neglected real life issue the anime viewing audience faces for example. Yeah, like having more shows about political and economic commentary on current events disguised as anime is likely gonna do any good..
I have no idea what the connection is between lack of a box set (because the production committee wants to milk the customers) and lack of respect for stories is....
Well that would be unfortunate IF such a claim were true for the majority of people
hahahahaha But even if with underground or independent rap--which means it can only be their hobby or side job, not careers--it doesn't mean they're good or even meaningful! Some are, but a lot aren't. And if you really had to choose the absolute best works, Sturgeon's Law applies regardless of underground, or mainstream or poor seller or commercial success.
Yeah, but the doujin market is where his complaints about would apply as well! And wait, if he praises manga, and sees it as the last hold-out, but also recognizes that's where, (along with novels, visual novels, and light-novels, like 99% anime originates, then isn't he contradicting himself? edit: about the complaint about moe -- I hope people realize that with 150-200 anime a year, perhaps only 1/4 maybe 1/3 at times might be considered moe. ... So what say you about the MAJORITY of anime that is not moe? Ever keep track of the Oricon charts? See the ANN top 20 weekly dvd/bd sellers? Oh, wait... guess what, the majority is NOT moe. Last edited by configspace on Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mglittlerobin
Posts: 1071 |
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I think he's getting tired of people sacrificing good quality stories and animation for the sake of character goods and merchandise.
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Not true. Like I wrote above, there is, and always has been LESS of that type. It's a significant amount yes, but nowhere near the majority. It has also NEVER dominated sales in terms of the amount of titles of its kind. Trust me on this. No, don't trust me since I don't want to look up a bunch if you don't believe me. Just look it up yourself in the ANN encyclopedia by year and the ANN news top 20 charts.
I disagree. While not everyone gets to do what they want, the vast majority of anime out there is from someone's own idea, usually from manga or novel nowadays, NOT due to some toy company saying, "hey, let's make some anime to sell these toys!" (yes there are a few instances of those but only a few) The commercialization comes afterward.
Well, if you really, truly wanted originality you'd have to go with something like Trapeze, or Genius Party, because 99% of the stuff out there no matter how good it is when you distill it down, is completely unoriginal. And the more true-to-life a slice-of-life show is, the LESS plot it's going to have. Furthermore, shows with good, solid story is still something that draws the Sato's ire. Why?
For a bit of irony, Sengoku Basara would fall right under every point he contends, DESPITE the lack of moe and little to no fanservice: - commercial success? check - merchandise success? check - emphasis on characters and good looking images? check - pure escapism? check - solid story, but not deep or metaphorical enough? check - no box set? check |
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chicogrande
Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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It seems to me that lately the quality of anime in Japan has suffered with a proliferation of erotic themes. From the continuing girl exploits of Kodomo no Jikan to the breast-sucking antics of Seikon no Qwaser, these are examples of gimmicks that are not limited to these shows, but are being cloned on new animations. This is being done for the sake not only of ratings, but the sales of uncensored digital media. Sure they want to make money, but the preferred material causes controversy, bad press and the decline of the medium. |
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rockman nes
Posts: 271 |
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Seriously?... Seriously?.. Justify your dislike of Sato's work, or shut the f*ck up. Your choice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPuu9RMsa1Y |
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SilverPhantom
Posts: 62 |
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I have to say he has some good points, but I don't think anime will die off completely, we will probably see a drop in the number of shows coming out in the future that's all.
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Dagon123
Posts: 194 |
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Now thats a straw man tactic right there, technically by definition, maybe, but most people here have said more then just moe in there explanations, by saying moe, also meaning cutesy girls doing cutesy things, cute in general, that entire ring genre is whats highest and that DOES make up for the most shows being made and the highest sellers, K-ON's live BD was the highest seller for how long? Exactly, more shows each season are made this way then any other genre, and thats a fact, how many shounen shows were made last season, and the season before? compared to the "hot new" strike witches or the next highschool cutesy drama thing that they wait to just throw out like chum to sharks |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Indeed. Fans demand service, howsoever this service manifests. One doubts whether those who produce works of animation would be best applying their skills if they didn't overlook certain undesirable factors of mundane life. To bring to an audience's attention particular grave facts that are applicable (or at least local) to them might motivate this audience somewhat, but it shall not necassarily entertain them. The interest in anime that I and many other persons hold is by no means conditional upon the medium being a rhetorical device or an animated analogue to cinéma vérité. spoiler[To demonstrate this, I should bring to the reader's attention the fact that I like moe.] |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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I exactly do mean that definition. And how is that a straw man tactic? I am addressing the claim that these shows are drowing out other shows when in fact, they aren't. Again, and again, I keep on saying FACT: yes, K-On (and the live BD and related stuff) was a goldmine, so? Are titles like that the majority? NO - FACT. Look at the top 20 charts yourself. Like I just mentioned previously, show me a good chunk of time--like a couple months or so; aw heck, even a just a couple weeks--where cutesy-girls-doing-cutesy-things comprised the majority of titles? And again and again, any claims that these types of shows are somehow the majority--that they are displacing other shows is simply false. People who have that impression is simply because their scope is too small. They hear about Strike witches 2 or K-On 2 and they say, "oh noes, it's all going downhill" and completely neglect all the other shows that continuously come out. Those are just a few--look throughout the year, this year, last year, upcoming months--out of 150-200 a year, how many are like Strike Witches or K-On? Of course, the issue is different if you have a problem with how a few of these types of titles are can sell well. Again though, neglecting the fact that it's NOT at the expense of other types of shows but rather along side them. |
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