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DmonHiro



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 3278
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:06 am Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I am sorry but their is no excuse for people who rip off crunchyrolls subs, they have the license for pretty much the entire world for several of their subs, the only convenience they offer is that you get them a week earlier for free, and you don't have to buy the DVD to watch it quickly and in an easy manner. Meanwhile the american anime industry has collapsed, and Japan is going to follow in a few years.

Wow... are you ever wrong.

1st: No, they don't have worldwide for all their subs. Oh, wait, I should first tell you that "worldwide" does NOT mean North America. It means the WHOLE globe. Complicated, isn't it?
2nd: Anime sales have INCREASED in Japan thanks to Bluray.
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GVman



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 702
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:43 am Reply with quote
[quote="vashfanatic"]
Sunday Silence wrote:
Is it that the enticement without the payoff is actually more exciting?


For me, yes. Now, I'm fine with sex scenes where the gentalia is never exposed, but I find exposed genetalia disgusting. I'd much rather see someone in clothes that are barely covering up there privates than actually see them. It's far, far more satisfying. I've never really understood how people can actually find most porn enticing because of the exposed meat.

But that's just me.
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Hypeathon



Joined: 12 Aug 2010
Posts: 1174
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, North America is not the only country on the globe.

Okay, ...I've been seeing this argument tossed around lately but in different variations like, "R1 is not the world." Honestly, .... eh, I need to ask. What makes anyone think that because say, Funimation for example sends cease and desists to fansub groups or whatever on their own product that they legally acquired, that somehow means they believe they are the world?

I... I don't get that arguement entirely. I mean if we're talking about the perspective of anime communities from around the world, then yeah, in that sense, the world doesn't revolve around America. But if we're talking about business and the size of anime markets in different countries, then the problem with that argument is that America has probably one of the biggest anime markets next to Japan in terms of acquired shows, unlike perhaps the United Kingdom, or Austrailia, let alone other countries. Not that I'm saying this is completely fair or anything, but that's sort of the way the system happens to be set up. Why aren't there enough companies from other countries acquiring anime or aren't acquired as much as say America? I really don't know. As much as I would like to see that, I honestly don't know why that's not the case.

That being said, I can't help but feel bothered that people don't bother to keep in mind that there is currently a legal attempt at this being Crunchyroll. Have they reached every country in the world? No. Have they licensed every show this season for streaming? Of course not, but at least they're trying. That's something about many anime fans that just outright bothers me where it's "give me everything in a nanosecond for free or give me death." I'm certain someone is gonna argue and justify why they have the right to want their anime in an ideal fashion, but looking at the progress instead of ONLY the perfection makes the most sense to me. Again, Crunchyroll isn't at an ideal stage, but at least they're still making progress with the mission they're set on, like recently, they now have Strike Witches available in Malaysia and Singapore, when it was originally available in roughly 10 places.
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ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7271
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:19 pm Reply with quote
GVman wrote:
For me, yes. Now, I'm fine with sex scenes where the gentalia is never exposed, but I find exposed genetalia disgusting. I'd much rather see someone in clothes that are barely covering up there privates than actually see them. It's far, far more satisfying. I've never really understood how people can actually find most porn enticing because of the exposed meat.

But that's just me.


I see what you're saying but I'm not exactly sure if it applies to anime these days. I mean, you see the 'panty' shots these days and they're so absurdly skin tight and detailed that they're not really panties at all. They're vaginas. Colouring em white doesn't really change that in my mind.

So I don't know. I actually agree with what you're saying but for me it's actually a reason (among a million others) that I don't get anything out of these ecchi shows. Maybe it's just a censorship thing but then, it actually seems like fans prefer this to outright explicit material so what's the thinking there? Why would otaku rather get off to these "panties" that aren't really panties at all than just watching some real nudity? It makes no sense to me.
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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:21 pm Reply with quote
Hypeathon wrote:
Why aren't there enough companies from other countries acquiring anime or aren't acquired as much as say America? I really don't know. As much as I would like to see that, I honestly don't know why that's not the case.

To put it briefly, the main reason this difference exists is due to the smaller market sizes of countries outside R1. They impose restrictions upon the number of licenses that would be profitable to buy within such regions.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:32 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
Charred Knight wrote:
I am sorry but their is no excuse for people who rip off crunchyrolls subs, they have the license for pretty much the entire world for several of their subs, the only convenience they offer is that you get them a week earlier for free, and you don't have to buy the DVD to watch it quickly and in an easy manner. Meanwhile the american anime industry has collapsed, and Japan is going to follow in a few years.

Wow... are you ever wrong.

1st: No, they don't have worldwide for all their subs. Oh, wait, I should first tell you that "worldwide" does NOT mean North America. It means the WHOLE globe. Complicated, isn't it?
... but what CharredKnight wrote was that they have WW distribution for several of their subs.

And that is what lets us test whether the "region blocking" is a reason or an excuse. Do they only rip shows that are region blocked?

No, of course not ... and the fact that the streaming rip groups also rip the ones with worldwide distribution is what proves that for the stream ripping groups, its not a reason ... its just an excuse.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1368
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:35 pm Reply with quote
DmonHiro wrote:
1st: No, they don't have worldwide for all their subs. Oh, wait, I should first tell you that "worldwide" does NOT mean North America. It means the WHOLE globe. Complicated, isn't it?

As opposed to FUNi, Viz Anime and the other legal groups that only simulcast in North America? Crunchyroll at least tried and succeeded to go past R1.
Hypeathon wrote:

That being said, I can't help but feel bothered that people don't bother to keep in mind that there is currently a legal attempt at this being Crunchyroll. Have they reached every country in the world? No. Have they licensed every show this season for streaming? Of course not, but at least they're trying. That's something about many anime fans that just outright bothers me where it's "give me everything in a nanosecond for free or give me death." I'm certain someone is gonna argue and justify why they have the right to want their anime in an ideal fashion, but looking at the progress instead of ONLY the perfection makes the most sense to me.

The answer is easy. Despite the wonderful movement that CR has made, lots of anime "fans" and I mean, leeches can be really anal about stuff that threatens anything that could remove the illegal way things have been done. CR and FUNi are "the man" in that case.

It's really a wonder why the companies put up with us at all.
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KENZICHI



Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 1032
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:50 pm Reply with quote
don't get me wrong, i get the arguement about fansubs, but some of you gotta know that alot of people can't see the videos that funimation and other companies put out.

i mean, i lurk around the hetalia community and whenever someone is so kind enough to post a link to funimation's page, to the subbed hetalia episodes, fans from other countries (other than the US) can't even watch it because it's country blocked.

i even watch fansubs sometimes, but that's only because i think that, that show may never come to the US. i would have never became a fan of DRRR! without fansubs, but that doesn't mean i'm not going to buy my own copy of the series when it comes out in january.

i know fansubbing is an effin' pain for companies and i know that the fansubbers aren't just trying to satisfy fans other than american fans, but someone please tell me how else i could have watched this show without waiting for this show to be liscenced and released in america..
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Rednal



Joined: 07 Jul 2008
Posts: 120
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Quote:


Because Brian kind of asked for a Venn Diagram. So, uh, something like this.
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garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1368
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:05 pm Reply with quote
KENZICHI wrote:
don't get me wrong, i get the arguement about fansubs, but some of you gotta know that alot of people can't see the videos that funimation and other companies put out.

i mean, i lurk around the hetalia community and whenever someone is so kind enough to post a link to funimation's page, to the subbed hetalia episodes, fans from other countries (other than the US) can't even watch it because it's country blocked.

i even watch fansubs sometimes, but that's only because i think that, that show may never come to the US. i would have never became a fan of DRRR! without fansubs, but that doesn't mean i'm not going to buy my own copy of the series when it comes out in january.

i know fansubbing is an effin' pain for companies and i know that the fansubbers aren't just trying to satisfy fans other than american fans, but someone please tell me how else i could have watched this show without waiting for this show to be liscenced and released in america..

Dude, I feel your pain. Really, I do.

It's just that I think we're referring to fanrippers here. Not subbers.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Hypeathon wrote:
Ai no Kareshi wrote:
Contrary to popular belief, North America is not the only country on the globe.

Okay, ...I've been seeing this argument tossed around lately but in different variations like, "R1 is not the world." Honestly, .... eh, I need to ask. What makes anyone think that because say, Funimation for example sends cease and desists to fansub groups or whatever on their own product that they legally acquired, that somehow means they believe they are the world?


It only makes sense if FUNimation serves C&D's on either:

1. Anime they personally Subtitled/Dubbed
2. Are active in markets they release products in.
3. Are given carte blanche rights by the original copyright holder to enforce their copyrights as a designated agent.

Yet I see online numerous times "selective enforcement" of copyrights. Youtube in particular has a mish-mash of copyright holders either:

1. Only silencing the audio (WMG being a notorious example).
2. Blocking video from certain regions (A Latin America Distributor heavily handed their "Copyright" over Evangelion to only Latin America only a while back).
3. Don't even hold the proper copyright to the material they claim to be enforcing in the first place. (Again, WMG doing this to the short movie C'était un rendez-vous even thought they only hold the copyright to the song Open Your Eyes that uses FOOTAGE of the movie and not the movie as a whole)

Copyright is good, but then again, it somehow gives people this unwarranted self-importance to block everything that even remotely affects them.

Zin5ki wrote:
To put it briefly, the main reason this difference exists is due to the smaller market sizes of countries outside R1. They impose restrictions upon the number of licenses that would be profitable to buy within such regions.


Ah, but what if Region Free DVD's were made? Wouldn't that streamline the process abit and in turn, garner more profits? The Porn Industry doesn't seem to have a problem in utilizing Region Free.
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Penguin_Factory



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 732
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:16 pm Reply with quote
Orange Hollow wrote:

Yeah, only for several of them. I can't watch Bleach or Durarara on Crunchyroll, what should I do? Move to Japan?


Buy the DVDs? Bleach is out in this region already, and Durarara will be next month.

I agree that it's annoying to be cut out of the loop when it comes to online streaming, but there are other ways to get this stuff.

Also, while we're on the subject of region locking stuff: does anyone know why Funimation blocks its trailers to non-american viewers? I've never seen a similar occurrence with movie trailers.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:31 pm Reply with quote
Penguin_Factory wrote:
Also, while we're on the subject of region locking stuff: does anyone know why Funimation blocks its trailers to non-american viewers? I've never seen a similar occurrence with movie trailers.


They probably are contractually obligated to only air their wares to North America.
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Zin5ki
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Joined: 06 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:36 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
Ah, but what if Region Free DVD's were made? Wouldn't that streamline the process abit and in turn, garner more profits? The Porn Industry doesn't seem to have a problem in utilizing Region Free.

Before I can pass comment on the suitability of your solution, the matter of how these R0 discs reach foreign consumers would need to be clarified upon.
Would you suggest that North American companies acquire multi-regional DVD licenses and distribute discs within several countries via help from foreign partners?
Alternatively, do you have in mind a system whereby fans in other regions import North American products instead of relying upon their smaller local industries?
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3213
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:55 pm Reply with quote
Hypeathon wrote:
That being said, I can't help but feel bothered that people don't bother to keep in mind that there is currently a legal attempt at this being Crunchyroll. Have they reached every country in the world? No. Have they licensed every show this season for streaming? Of course not, but at least they're trying. That's something about many anime fans that just outright bothers me where it's "give me everything in a nanosecond for free or give me death." I'm certain someone is gonna argue and justify why they have the right to want their anime in an ideal fashion, but looking at the progress instead of ONLY the perfection makes the most sense to me. Again, Crunchyroll isn't at an ideal stage, but at least they're still making progress with the mission they're set on, like recently, they now have Strike Witches available in Malaysia and Singapore, when it was originally available in roughly 10 places.
For instance, as Rob Perayda has said, if Crunchyroll had 2,000 subscribers in Hong Kong, they could unlock a lot of series for Hong Kong.

There is a chicken and the egg problem there, because the regions with a lot of blocks have less to see and so fewer people who can justify the cost of the subscription.

Toss the stream rippers into that chicken and egg problem: since the stream rippers do rip the streams that are available worldwide, they do undermine Crunchyroll's ability to get new subscribers in areas that only get those streams, and so their actions do tend to reduce the number of streams that Crunchyroll can offer in those countries.

If the stream ripping groups only ripped streams with region blocks and only directly distributed the rips to people from those region blocked countries, their actions would be debatable. Obviously the leech streaming sites would still get their hands on copies and the series would still be widely streamed in direct competition against Crunchyroll, so their argument would have that weakness ... but at least it would be a serious argument.

However, since they rip everything, no matter how widely available and distribute to all countries indiscriminately, the region blocking is just another excuse.

Sunday Silence wrote:
Penguin_Factory wrote:
Also, while we're on the subject of region locking stuff: does anyone know why Funimation blocks its trailers to non-american viewers? I've never seen a similar occurrence with movie trailers.


They probably are contractually obligated to only air their wares to North America.
Yeah, that's a difference between a trailer made by the content creator and a trailer made by a regional distributor ... movie trailers are more often made by the studio and distributed without region restrictions. For Funimation to release its trailers outside the licensed area for the work would require a special clearance on the trailer itself, which is a practice that would cost more time on both sides than is justified by any commercial benefit.


Last edited by agila61 on Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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