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NEWS: Tourist Jailed in New Zealand for Child Abuse 'Manga' Images


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Deacon Blues



Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 388
Location: Albuquerque, NM
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:38 pm Reply with quote
I love how everyone chimes in and ignores the fact that the material was of [a] "child being sexually abused, degraded, exploited and tortured".

No matter how you look at it, that type of material is just sick and disgusting... and hiding behind the "it's just art" banner just won't cut it.
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6251
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:41 pm Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
I love how everyone chimes in and ignores the fact that the material was of [a] "child being sexually abused, degraded, exploited and tortured".

No matter how you look at it, that type of material is just sick and disgusting... and hiding behind the "it's just art" banner just won't cut it.


Uh, yes, if it's just a drawing, that's all that really matters and cuts it just fine. It doesn't matter how disgusting you find it, it's still just a goddamned drawing.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:49 pm Reply with quote
@Deacon Blues:

But you are ignoring the fact that it's not real and causes no actual harm. No real children were abused, and such Manga will not encourage any harm to come to real children.

Do I like such material? Hell no. But jailing a man for ten months for simply having drawings is absolutely outrageous. And if censors are allowed to get away with punishing people for having drawings, then they may start coming for material that isn't as offensive as Hentai. Edgy non-pornographic stuff like Dance in the Vampire Bund, for example.
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Alexander55



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 104
Location: Ontario, CA
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:03 am Reply with quote
It surprises me that people are still getting busted for something like this. What crime did the man commit anyway? Looking at loli/high school-aged, illustrated Anime girls?

Rather than wasting New Zealanders money like this, they should be after the people who produce the real child porn and/or traffic children through sex trades instead. But then again, New Zealand's laws and politicians resemble that of Australia's far-right who want to ban porn itself.

At this rate, all we can hope is for the poor guy to get some lawyers and take the action needed to bail him out of this mess. Confused


Last edited by Alexander55 on Sun May 19, 2013 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:15 am Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
I love how everyone chimes in and ignores the fact that the material was of [a] "child being sexually abused, degraded, exploited and tortured".

No matter how you look at it, that type of material is just sick and disgusting... and hiding behind the "it's just art" banner just won't cut it.


No one cares, loli is not CP unless you're insane.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:16 am Reply with quote
@Alexander55:

You are absolutely correct when you say that New Zealand officials should be focusing their efforts on catching real criminals.

However, unfortunately for this guy he has already been sentenced and jailed. I don't know why he pled guilty, though I suspect he did so in order to avoid receiving a longer sentence which would have been on the cards had he fought the charge and still been found guilty. Plus although the law is utterly stupid he still clearly broke it, so he wouldn't have had much ground for a defence other than pointing out how ridiculous it (the law) is.
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aoi yuuki fanboy



Joined: 19 Dec 2012
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 12:47 am Reply with quote
Lolicon here. Isn't hentai like this good because it is an alternative to real CP? Wouldn't you rather have him looking at this than real children? With my hentai collection, I don't need the real thing...
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RogueJedi86



Joined: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 501
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:18 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
@Deacon Blues:

But you are ignoring the fact that it's not real and causes no actual harm. No real children were abused, and such Manga will not encourage any harm to come to real children.

Do I like such material? Hell no. But jailing a man for ten months for simply having drawings is absolutely outrageous. And if censors are allowed to get away with punishing people for having drawings, then they may start coming for material that isn't as offensive as Hentai. Edgy non-pornographic stuff like Dance in the Vampire Bund, for example.


Yeah, to have consistent and equally fair judgment, they should also be charging anyone with a violent manga with attempted murder or something comparable to assuming any hentai is equivalent to the resl thing.

Not that I actually advocate charging people with murder, but it's part of a straw man based on how NZL treats hentai as equivalent to actual child porn. Artwork is not the same as reality!
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:19 am Reply with quote
@aoi yuuki fanboy:

That's a really dumb and extremely dangerous argument to make. You are saying that if guys who read Lolicon Manga cannot get their "fix" from the Manga then they will go abuse real children. That's simply not true. And it is such a very dangerous argument because you paint guys who read Lolicon Manga as being savage beasts who can only barely contain their urges with the help of pornographic Manga. That sort of sentiment actually harms more than it helps, because it reinforces the idea in the public that Lolicons are essentially paedophiles anyway and deserve to be locked up.
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ScruffyKiwi



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 675
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:22 am Reply with quote
mdreura wrote:
TsunaReborn! wrote:
You wouldn't expect to enter Saudi Arabia with a bottle of Vodka and not have some kind of consequence.


According to courtnews.co.nz NZ Customs intends to permanently confiscate the guy's computer, so the Saudia Arabia comparison seems like a real ringer.

What the heck kind of country are you New Zealanders running down there?


As a previous poster mentioned, it's images that promote child abuse are illegal. Just for you information text only stories fall under this as well and you can be prosecuted for that.

Anyway, with the notable exclusion of the USA in most western countries Lolicon manga are illegal.
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ScruffyKiwi



Joined: 25 Oct 2010
Posts: 675
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:30 am Reply with quote
HitokiriShadow wrote:
Deacon Blues wrote:
I love how everyone chimes in and ignores the fact that the material was of [a] "child being sexually abused, degraded, exploited and tortured".

No matter how you look at it, that type of material is just sick and disgusting... and hiding behind the "it's just art" banner just won't cut it.


Uh, yes, if it's just a drawing, that's all that really matters and cuts it just fine. It doesn't matter how disgusting you find it, it's still just a goddamned drawing.


To New Zealand law it is an item that promotes abuse, and ultimately ends with you being in prison so yes it does matter. Censorship is never about 'protecting the children', it's about protecting the moral norms in the society.

Anyway .. I need to head off to create a TrueCrypt volume on my hard drive Smile
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shamisen the great



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 658
Location: Oregon, USA
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 2:56 am Reply with quote
ScruffyKiwi wrote:
Censorship is never about 'protecting the children', it's about protecting the moral norms in the society.
Unfortunately true. That's why I'm wary of most censorship. Normal is overrated.
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Hawkwing



Joined: 24 Apr 2011
Posts: 317
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 3:55 am Reply with quote
What the fudge is wrong with these people? They value fictional characters over real children? Behead them!

Loli porn is completely fine, let people masturbate to these images and videos if they want to. Shane Panettiere is inhumane and doesn't have no right to live.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 3717
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:12 am Reply with quote
Deacon Blues wrote:
I love how everyone chimes in and ignores the fact that the material was of [a] "child being sexually abused, degraded, exploited and tortured".

No matter how you look at it, that type of material is just sick and disgusting... and hiding behind the "it's just art" banner just won't cut it.

First, even if it were "sick", the criminalization still wouldn't justified.

Now, to put things in perspective, as I mentioned previously about some known titles that are banned: http://www.censorship.govt.nz/search-for-a-classification/search-for-a-classification.html (there are PDF links in search results)

For Ikki Tousen Dragon Destiny:
Quote:
The DVD is classified as objectionable because of the extent and degree to which, and the manner in which, it exploits the of nudity of young persons.
[ . . . ]
By presenting these images, the viewer is encouraged to be entertained and titillated by these sexualised images of young teenage girls.


For Puni Puni Poemy:
Quote:
The Board considers, pursuant to section 3(1) of the Act that the publication passes through the “gateways” of sex crime and violence in that it “describes, depicts or expresses or otherwise deals with” matters of sex, crime and violence in such a manner that the unrestricted availability of the publication is likely to be “injurious to the public good”.
[ . . . ]
There are numerous examples of sexualised material which include the scene in the hot-tub where the commentator states the characters are depicted nude, due to the animators’ own “perversion” and “sexual desperation”.


Given that these images come from his actual job for clients who produce commercial manga:
Quote:
Balzer explained to customs that he is an author who receives images for making electronic books for retail sale.

and that virtual child porn depicting actual (fictional) abuse is also illegal in Germany--but is simply more narrow in scope--and given the kind of ecchi material widely available and licensed in Germany, I bet those images are your typical nude boob-grabbing, high school ecchi fare.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3453
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:59 am Reply with quote
ScruffyKiwi wrote:
...
Anyway, with the notable exclusion of the USA in most western countries Lolicon manga are illegal.

Fortunately the situation isn't quite that dire. I had short subscriptions of both Comic LO and Comic Rin (just to sample them...). So I have a firm believe Finland has a more sane stance on this matter.

@ModalSilverSoul
@TsunaReborn!
@Deacon Blues
No way how much you try to stretch the definitions, drawings are just that, drawings. So any arguments to compare them to real abuse fall flat. And makes great disservice in the fight against actual child abuse.

There is a shadow hanging over this case though, which stems from Balzer's own past in Germany, as reported by Stuff.co.nz (one of the first to report the outcome of the case);
Quote:
It is Marcus Balzer's third jail term. He has served two sentences in Germany, including a six-year, six-month term imposed in 2006 for sexual abuse of youths coinciding with producing child pornography.

But that was eight years ago, and we don't know the details in those two cases, other than what was mentioned in the article linked.
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