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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 8036
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
[First of all, it should be obvious to anyone who isn't a complete moron that there is no automatic connection between "Internet buzz" and profitability of a specific title. Just because certain shows "appear" to be something to you - a person who doesn't watch them anyway - or don't get Internet awareness that you perceive doesn't mean that Sentai isn't making a profit off them.


You're right, there's no automatic connection. However, it's pretty clear when few people, if any, are talking about a title and the threads for the announcement of the license for them are either empty or filled with bewildered people who've never heard of the show that something is wrong, because that happens frequently with Sentai. There doesn't need to be an automatic connection, it's still an excellent indicator when nobody anywhere is talking about those shows that perhaps Sentai is wasting their money and time in an attempt to succeed through volume of licenses alone.

Something doesn't need to be an absolute indicator to be a good indicator. There are these things called "trends".
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:46 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Blood- wrote:
[First of all, it should be obvious to anyone who isn't a complete moron that there is no automatic connection between "Internet buzz" and profitability of a specific title. Just because certain shows "appear" to be something to you - a person who doesn't watch them anyway - or don't get Internet awareness that you perceive doesn't mean that Sentai isn't making a profit off them.


You're right, there's no automatic connection. However, it's pretty clear when few people, if any, are talking about a title and the threads for the announcement of the license for them are either empty or filled with bewildered people who've never heard of the show that something is wrong, because that happens frequently with Sentai. There doesn't need to be an automatic connection, it's still an excellent indicator when nobody anywhere is talking about those shows that perhaps Sentai is wasting their money and time in an attempt to succeed through volume of licenses alone.


This also happens with nearly every simulcast announcement. So by your logic, Crunchyroll, Funimation, Viz, and Sentai should stop doing them?
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:56 pm Reply with quote
^
Simulcast license announcements are different from home video license announcements, since simulcasts haven't been aired yet and no-one is expected to know what they are.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 3:58 pm Reply with quote
@ penguintruth - And you once again display your lack of business acumen. An initial lack of awareness of a title does not mean it is a waste of time to release it. That's what a little thing called "marketing" and "advertising" is for.

Look, I'm not saying that the titles you identified are massive sellers for Sentai. I've already said that neither you nor I have access to sales figures or to Sentai's books. Hey, maybe they are teetering on the brink of collapse, for all I know.

The only thing outsiders like you and I can do is look for visible signs of distress. Media Blasters, for the last few years, has been giving masterclasses in what these visible signs of distress look like. Sentai is not exhibiting any of those signs. Therefore, it is not unreasonable to conclude that their business model is, if nothing else, keeping their lights on. Nobody is getting rich in the niche enterprise that is North American anime distribution these days.

So again, your whole "point" is, "duhhhhhh, dere no Internet discussion of dese titles so dey must be losing money on dem, duhhhhhhhh."

Rolling Eyes
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:10 pm Reply with quote
I never once asserted with certainty that Sentai is losing money with these titles, my assertion was that Sentai has a catalogue of many almost assuredly obscure titles that they seem to relish in continuing to license despite very little buzz about them. They have very few marquee titles that could stand toe-to-toe with Funimation's hits.

Perhaps critical reading isn't your forte.

So again, your entire point seems to be, "Well... maybe they DO! You don't know 100% for sure, so your opinions are invalid! I know this one guy who kind of liked Destiny of the Shrine Maiden!"

Rolling Eyes
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:29 pm Reply with quote
No, I understand your point quite well. You don't like these types of titles; as far as you can tell there's not a lot of Internet buzz about these titles. Is it really such a stretch for me to assume your natural conclusion is that Sentai's business model is flawed? Rolling Eyes

Comparisons of Funi and Sentai titles are dopey. Funi's business model is to only license titles that can support a dub. Sentai's model is a mixture. Because Sentai is willing to release sub-only titles, that inherently means a lot of them won't stack up, with respect to sales numbers, to a Funi dubbed title. But so what?

The crucial determinate from a company's point of view is ... are we making a profit? Are we able to stay in business? So far, Sentai seems to be staying in business. So your whining about "obscure" titles is utterly pointless from a business point of view.
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Mesonoxian Eve



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:47 pm Reply with quote
To further back blood's position, there's also a reasonable conclusion some of these titles released came in licensing bundles, which would make sense from Sentai's perspective since they do not dub all of them.

This would, in my opinion, explain how Sentai could release as many titles as they've been.

I also discount the "no talk = no sales" because the opposite could also be true. I'm talking about all the loli/harem/high school hate I often see by fans.

The math seems off if you include the hate talk from a company which said it was doing great.

I'll let that simmer for a bit in this dispute. Wink
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dragonrider_cody



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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:47 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
^
Simulcast license announcements are different from home video license announcements, since simulcasts haven't been aired yet and no-one is expected to know what they are.


That was exactly my point. And with Sentai, simulcast announcements are home video announcements. To date, they haven't done any streaming only licenses. The closest thing was the loli-basketball series, and that was only because Warner Brothers bought the home video licenses back over seas.

I would like to point out that each R1 company has a different business strategy. Funimation is unwilling to release titles sub-only, and won't touch titles it thinks won't sell enough to support ones. Viz is more or less in the same boat. Sentai will do subonly releases, but also dubs titles that it expects to sell higher quantities or that have been, or will be picked up overseas. NISA and Nozomi don't dub anything, at least at the present, and are willing to pick up smaller titles that Funimation and Viz wouldn't take the risk on. I don't think anyone quite knows what MB's business plan is right now.

They each have their own business models that seem to be working for them. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. If taking on super cheap licenses for obscure shows that they can release subonly works for Sentai, then it really doesn't matter if a large number of people like the shows or not. All that really matters is that they make money selling them, and most of their obscure shows don't have very high break even points.

You have to remember that the higher tier titles that Sentai and Funimation pick up cost a lot more than the obscure shows that get released sub-only. Dubbing adds even more cost, so those higher tier shows usually have lower profit margins. The hope is that they sell enough volume to make up for that. Sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't.
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getchman
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:00 pm Reply with quote
Media Blasters plan is "guys, tell us what you want and we'll try and make it happen"
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:09 pm Reply with quote
Personally, I am reasonably satisfied with how the current NA distribution system is working as a whole. As has been pointed out, various companies have various strategies, but between them all, a fair amount of stuff is getting licensed here. I love having as much choice as possible.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
Personally, I am reasonably satisfied with how the current NA distribution system is working as a whole. As has been pointed out, various companies have various strategies, but between them all, a fair amount of stuff is getting licensed here. I love having as much choice as possible.


I have to agree here. Back before Sentai got rolling, there was very little being licensed that I wanted. Now, between all the companies, even Viz, I can make out a pretty decent shopping list each month. The fact that more titles are getting dubbed again is just icing on the cake.

It may not be perfect, and there are a few things about the ADV/Geneon days that I miss, but it's a big improvement over what we had a few years ago.
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Maidenoftheredhand



Joined: 21 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Sentai doesn't always license the big hits. They license niche titles that might have low license costs. However because costs for the license are so low they don't have to sell a lot to make a profit on these titles...This is their business model. And it seems to be working for them.


The thing about big hits is they cost more to license and you have to sell a certain amount to make up for that cost. Just because something is a bit hit, gets a lot of Internet Buzz, and so forth does not necessarily mean it is going to sell enough to break even.

Anyways not every company can follow the same business model so as fans we should be happy we have a lot of different options. There are still a lot of titles I love that are not licensed so I am certainly not going to complain because Sentai god forbid doesn't only license "the biggest hits". What about people who like series that aren't just the "biggest hits"?
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 6:07 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:

I have to agree here. Back before Sentai got rolling, there was very little being licensed that I wanted. Now, between all the companies, even Viz, I can make out a pretty decent shopping list each month. The fact that more titles are getting dubbed again is just icing on the cake.

It may not be perfect, and there are a few things about the ADV/Geneon days that I miss, but it's a big improvement over what we had a few years ago.

That's about how I feel. Things are in a bit of a sweeter spot for me than they were a few years ago too, not only with the variety of R1 titles, but also something we never got in the ADV/Geneon days: excellent simulcast coverage. Sentai sublicensing titles to Crunchyroll has been particularly favorable to me, as I prefer how they handle the simulcast aspect over the other platforms. Adding in the others, though, pretty much everything (with increasingly limited and less noteworthy exceptions) is covered each season which is nice.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 5:05 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Or why they license title after title of things almost nobody is interested in.

Possibly because the "almost noboby" population purchases enough to make those sub-only DVD releases + streaming licenses profitable? Nah, that couldn't be it.
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dm



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 588
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Data point: even before this erupted into a flame war, there were three times as many posts in the Sentai con-report thread as there were in the Funimation con-report thread (now, thanks to the flames, this thread has added about 45 messages while the Funimation thread has added one message).

So.... I guess that indicates that nobody cares about Sentai compared to Funimation, right?


Last edited by dm on Wed May 29, 2013 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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