Forum - View topicNEWS: 4Kids Profit Falls Again
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SamekoSlayer
 Posts: 6 |
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No surprise there... |
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red stranger
 Posts: 184 |
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I gone through this whole thread, and I think this word really needs to be said:
NINTENDO. Nintendo invented the whole Pokemon craze, and I doubt 4Kids would have been so successful with the anime if the games had been unpopular. Nintendo also brought anime-style images into the mainstream when they brought over their games from Japan. Also, I too have to agree that Malintex Terek might be overstating 4Kids influence on the mainstream anime market. First of all, as other people have pointed out, anime had already start to become popular prior to Pokemon. Secondly, even though anime had not hit the mainstream directly, it ceratinly was influencing it. Witness the whole Lion King/Kimba controversy, and the Wachowski brothers' obvious interest in anime (Matrix/GITS). Finally, if 4Kids' child oriented shows had really been so influential, then why have other major anime companies gone in the opposite direction - better dubs, less edits, older target audiences. Mainstream companies seem to prefer just making their own child friendly knock offs rather than importing Japanese stuff - and isn't that what 4Kids is starting to do now? |
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bluepita
 Posts: 465 |
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Just a small point with this. Anime fans woul.d have been much happier with an uncut One Piece. However, anime fans spend much less money than parents. There are a lot more kids out there than anime fans (unfortunately). One Piece may be a children's show in Japan, but according to ANN, here it's Teenagers (May contain bloody violence, bad language, nudity). Which means there is no way many parents would let their children watch it. I wouldn't, and around here at least, I am one of the most liberal parents around, excepting those who let their young children watch things along the lines of Kill Bill. Therefore, in pleasing a smaller buying group, they would lose a larger one, in essence losing money. Don't get me wrong. If I was hoping for a great show to come over and it was licensed and butchered, I'd be upset. But, calling a company evil for following smart business practices is a little crazy. Companies aren't evil; they are businesses set up to make money. (By the way, this paragraph wasn't focused on you, ponlork, just the thread in general.  )
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ponlork
Posts: 102 |
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I'm not really against editing for violence or nudity, that's understandable but I don't agree that all of their edits were meant for the purpose of censoring violence. What was so offensive about the original One Piece Opening that prompt them to replace it with some, "Gotta go! Gotta go! uh oh! Ayo Zolo he's a Samurai and u know Nami she aint Shy" crap, come on now there was no reason in changing the original theme the only purpose was to Localize and that was it. But like I said, I honestly believe that if presented with the original theme, it would have attracted more viewers and gain more respect from the anime community. If you were to show the original theme and the Rap version to a group of people I bet a large percentage ratio will favor the original version. Anybody here actually prefer the OnePiece Rap over the "We Are!" theme? And I'm speaking from a business side, these Network Execs think they know a hit when they don't, nothing's for certain and I don't agree that some of their practices will make the show any better. Who knows more about what we like then the fans themselves, I hate being told what to like and 4kids isn't qualified enough to shove that shit down kids throats and say kids are stupid and they'll like whatever we tell them to like. If their practices were so smart then they wouldn't be at a downward spiral right now with their profits taking a nosedive. You can take a show such as Naruto for example, even though they changed the OP's I thought they did a pretty good job at keeping both anime fans and the general audience satisfied. Most of the stuff that made the show appealing was left intact, they kept the original background music, the character names, the Japanese symbols and cultural references, even the pronunciations were pretty accurate. the only thing they did really was edit some minor violence. They didn't skip episodes or chop scenes in pieces making it impossible to dub the original Japanese track over it, that's why Viz was able to include both English and Japanese tracks onto the uncut DVD's, something that 4kids have NEVER done on any of their releases. But of course there were some Naruto fans who were nick-picking and complaining about everything before it even premiered just hoping and praying something is wrong with it. that's expected and happens with every series out there that has notoriety. But it wasn't as bad as a lot of fans tried to make it out to be. The acting was above par and better then 80 percent of the dubs that's currently out there. The "Believe it" phrase couldn't of been any more annoying then Naruto saying Dattebayo in every other phrase. At least they didn't get some overused anime voice actor like Tony Oliver to play Naruto, they got someone new and with the credentials to back it up. The overall reception for Naruto is pretty good, and Naruto is single handedly saving Toonami right now. Proof you don't need to butcher shows in order for it to be successful in America. Now to the previous poster before you, I completely forgot about the influence of videogames making an impact on the mainstream appeal of anime. Back in the days the majority of games were imported from Japan, and I think a lot of Japanese games especially Fighting games and RPG's shared similar characteristics to anime which help make the transition much easier. I know I initially got into anime from playing Capcom and SNK fighting games from the early 90's. |
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blueharlequin
 Posts: 81 Location: Las Vegas, NV (No, we don't live in hotels here) |
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Well here is one person who would buy it if it was released UNCUT. I had spend a small fortune to buy the Japanese DVDs. And it may not be the "holy father of all anime" but it IS popular. The only reason I started watching One Piece was every anime/manga forum I've been to, someone has mentioned it at least once. I was actually rather reluctant to watch it at first BECAUSE it was so popular. I tend to like off-the-wall stuff.
Have you ever watched those G-d-awful things? And fansubs are illegal . . . There is the eternal debate over sub vs. dub. I am partial to subtitles. I like hearing things in their original language and watching things that have nothing omitted. (What kind of person would like to see the statue of David with clothes on?) Not to say I hate dubs. (I prefer watching Helling, VHD: Bloodlust and Rurouni Kenshin dubbed) Its just that the dub has to be exceptional. For example, I would rather be tortured on the rack than watch the dub of Excel Saga (ADV) or Yu Yu Hakusho (Funimation) In conclusion, I don't hate 4kids but neither do I like them. If they were to release an uncut version of One Piece you could count me in as a part of their future profits. Reality check for all those people who only ever DL fansubs and don't support the industry. |
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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Not that you have much of a choice in case of VHD:Bloodlust... which is a shame, really. The dub voices are mostly good and so are their performances, but the dialogue is horrible. It's overwrought, cheesy, and sometimes even pointless. (It was a revelatory experience to watch this movie in Japanese. "Wow, what do you know, it has a story!" "Hey, that guy's joke actually had a point!" etc.) Also, in the dub version of Bloodlust the characters talk twice as much as in the Japanese version which really hurts the mood (it's a western, for crying out loud) and the voice actors' performance (as they sometimes have to talk too fast to say their lines in the given time). I don't understand why so many American dubs have more dialogue than the originals. Do people get bored if no-one is talking? (I also don't understand why they felt the need to give Meierlink an accent when no-one else has one...) [/off] |
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Storyteller93
Posts: 5 Location: Not on Pluto anymore...*sniff* |
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Wow. I feel old now. (pre-pokemon anime watcher)
I would like to agree with blueharlequin. I am also someone that would spend money on One Piece uncut DVD's. I buy all my other favorite anime's on DVD, why not this one? I would also like to say that I don't think 4kids is a company run by the devil or whatever else you say about it. They got the license for several different anime and edited them to something that is unpaletable to most anime fans. It's over, and done with. Lets move on. My personal first experience with anime was Transformers and Ronin Warriors, but I'm not sure if anyone actually knew that those were anime when they came out. The first time a watched an anime and knew it was an anime was Cartoon Networks anime shows (DBZ, Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing ect) So to me personally, 4kids had little to nothing to do with my like of anime. I also agree that 4kids has "kiddie-fied" anime for the gerenal puplic. I did watch Yu-Gi-Oh when it came on, and I thought it was okay. The problem was that I was mocked by my roomates for watching a "stupid little kids show" which stopped me watching it on saturday mornings. For the while during this time, whenever I said I watched anime, people would always say "you mean pokemon?", a show I have never really seen or cared about. But then again, most americans see all animated TV shiows as cartoons. What I really think has helped anime in america has been something that no one has said anything about: when Spirited Away won the oscar for best animimated feature. But like most things on this topic, it's just an opinon. |
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Jerseymilk
 Posts: 157 Location: Wouldn't YOU like to know. |
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Vampire Hunter D:Bloodlust was originally made for the American market. The English dialogue was created first, then it was later dubbed into Japanese for that market. The English dub in this case is actually the original, *not* the Japanese. |
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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I'm aware of that - but it doesn't make the English dialogue any better. It sucks, and it's a shame. |
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kei-clone
Posts: 23 Location: in your house |
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You make valid points, but the problem is that now 4kids isn't pleasing any demographic. Not the children, not the otaku, no one, and this is because they screwed everything up, and this seen in OP's rockbottom ratings. Alas, OP is only the most egregious example of 4kids's treacheries. sure, they try to please a larger audience, but something in me keeps envisioning Al Kahn as the dad from Elf - that guy who didn't give a crap about a missing picture book page because "it's just a dam children's book!" |
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pearlslam
Posts: 15 Location: no place in particular |
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I think that we can agree on one thing: we live in a day and time where less editing is good for the industry. Think about it this way, most kid shows are more violent today than the garbage that 4Kids is putting out today, and it is not limited to just One Piece either:
Yu-Gi-Oh: They chopped off the first 15 episodes. Granted, I glanced over the content that 4Kids chopped in the manga, and it was pretty dark and violent, but there was no need to not include it in the DVD release. You get the message. We as an anime culture have grown more and more demanding to uncut animes, and most studios have heard that message. 4Kids is the ONLY one that still puts their garbage into their franchises while not pandering to the uncut folks and releasing an uncut version. It is showing here. |
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OneHotAlchemist
Posts: 85 |
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The japanese dialogue is actually far far worse. VHD:BL ENG > JP |
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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It's worse because...? It's not overwrought and definitely not as cheesy (at least there are no lines like "Can anyone understand this pain, this loneliness?" eugh!), it makes sense (I had to watch squirrel joke two times to even have an idea about what the point was), the voice actors don't have to talk unnaturally fast to say three lines when there's time for only one, there's no constant blabbering and the Japanese version of the story is more down-to-earth which is something I always appreciate. The only good point of the English version is that it's more mainstream in the sense that it doesn't require the audience to have a background knowledge about D... but then, my friends who watched the Japanese version hadn't heard of VHD before and had no problems understanding everything. I see no reason in praising the English dub just because it's an English dub that's not crappy. *shrug* There are English dubs I like, but Bloodlust is definitely not among them, and for once it's not the voice actors' fault. I'm not saying the Japanese dub is some great work of art, but I enjoyed it a lot more than the English one. But hey, maybe it's because English is not my first language and thus I can't appreciate the refinement of the English dub... |
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gingercrush
Posts: 3 |
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I would have thought people into anime would have grown up a bit. I guess rational thought and proper statements dont apply anymore. It really is time that there is a maturation of anime fans. This is the same crap thats been said seven years ago.
The problem with 4-kids is while the pokemon dub proved to be popular even with those against some edits. Many people that watched pokemon expected better things out of their other products. ie. 12/13 going into teen years. Hell I watched it at 15 and I know for a fact 20 year olds etc watched pokemon. The thing with anime is once people realise that things have been edited and that there is a wide range of anime available, they expect more. Thus the people that once only watched the likes of pokemon/dragonball/sailormoon start watched eva, cowboy bebop etc and they start demanding more of the same. I'm sure most posters here have seen the kid/teenager who comes here saying "such anime is the best". ie. newbie and slowly you change because your interest of anime changes and you learn more about it. Its what we were all like at one stage or another (even though most of you will decide to ignore it). 4kids went wrong by not improving their dubs, by not releasing stuff to an older demographic, and that is a mistake. Kids don't stay kids for long, they grow up and fast. Funimation did the right thing by releasing more anime with better dubs and options (such as uncut anime) and this got fans on their side. 4kids meanwhile burnt many of the fans that helped make pokemon popular, spat on them and continued to do the same stuff that they did with pokemon. Although it would be my personal argument, that 4kids made a great pokemon product and that dubs made to yu-gi-oh, one piece and other works simply dont cut the mustard. Not simply because of heavy editing. But the voice work, rescripting, quality just isn't there. Thus while they got kids into yu-gi-oh and now one piece, these kids will soon feel burned by 4kids. 4kids mistake is their arrogancy. But they'll survive. |
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Steventheeunuch
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gingercrush: you are right in a way, that kids do grow up and move on. However, there's always another generation behind them that 4Kids will want to market their stuff to, and that's how they operate. Children are MUCh easier to market and sell things towards than teenagers and what not, especially if it's a media-based thing like TV shows and what not.
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