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Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose shouldn't be a DB entry




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Faiga_Raisa



Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:08 am Reply with quote
anime#3552

Pardon if this is the wrong place to post but I didn't see an report feature on the anime's page itself for this particular issue, but as the title says, this entry should exist. Angie & Rose is the title to the 35th episode of Cream Lemon which it is already linked to.
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Dessa



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 3057

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:59 am Reply with quote
From doing some research (read: looking at Wikipedia and how the overall entry is in the encyclopedia), each OAV series is its own entry, with an overall omnibus entry for the franchise.

The problem is, is that the entire thing is a mess, with large portions missing.

The [Cream Lemon] omnibus lists the following as parts of the franchise:

Cream Lemon Part 4: POP CHASER (OAV)
Tabidach - Ami Shusho (movie)
Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu (OAV)
Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose (OAV)
Cream Lemon (live-action movie)
Cream Lemon: New Generation (OAV)

Now, assuming Wikipedia is correct, and given how franchise/omnibus entries in the encyclopedia work, this is how the franchise should be organized [note: Wikipedia's translated titles are being used here]:
1) Cream Lemon (OAV) - 16 episodes, released 1984-1987
***POP CHASER is the 4th episode of ths OAV series
2) New Cream Lemon (OAV) - 9 episodes, 1987-1988
3) Cream Lemon Special: Ami Image White Shadow (OAV) - 1 episode, 1985
***Would have a note "part of the Ami Series"
4) Cream Lemon: Ami's Journey (movie)
***This is Tabidachi - Ami Shusho already in the database
***Would have a note "part of the Ami Series"
5) Ami Series (OAV) - 4 episodes, 1988-1990
***Not sure what the actual title of this is, this is what Wiki lists it as

I'm not sure how the next section should be listed, as Wikipedia lists the following as "Miscellaneous Specials":
*The Dark (6-25-1987)
*Astaroth (12-6-1989)
*To Moriyama Best Hit: 'I Guess So' (4-4-1990)
*Visions of Europe (6-1990)
*Kei Amagi Special: Cherry Melancholy (7-1990)
*Young Love: Angie & Rose (7-17-1992)
***This is the Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose entry
*Return to Black Cat Manor (3-19-1993)

After those, we're back to easier things
7) New-Century Cream Lemon (OAV) - 2 episodes, 2001-2002
8) Cream Lemon (live-action movie) - 2004
***Already in the encyclopedia
9) Cream Lemon: New Generation (OAV) - ? episodes, 2006-????
***Already in the encyclopedia

What Wikipedia has no listing of is the Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu (OAV) (1990-10-21), so I'm not sure where this is supposed to go at all.

*goes off to Japanese Wikipedia, for more info*

Okay, Wiki.jp is listing 20 episodes as part of the first OAV, with the "Ami Image White Shadow" and "Tabidachi" being part of that, along with other stuff I couldn't read.

"The Dark" is listed as "Cream Lemon Special DARK", so it's apparently its own thing.

Wiki.en's "Ami Series" is here as "Ami Sorekara" (Ami After That), and is the 4 episodes (they're listing movies separately)

Next up is "Mangaka Series", which is where the Astaroth, Best Hits, Cheery Melancholy, and a 4th OAV that isn't on Wiki.en at all (release date: 1/1990).

Wiki.jp's next section seems to be "Whole Collection Compilation", and I'm not sure if this is new stuff, or just compilations of earlier storylines.

"Series Nameless" comes next on Wiki.jp, and is the Angie & Rose OAV, as well as the Return to Black Cat Manor (at least, I assume it's that one, by the release date.

Next thing on Wiki.jp is apparently "Cream Lemon jr" and I have no clue what it is, since there's nothing individual listed under it.

"Cream Lemon Perfect Collection" is next, again, nothing individual listed under it.

"Cream Lemon Perfect Works" is next, again, nothing under it.

New Century comes next, followed by New Generation.

And still, the "Ninki Manga-ga Zessho" is nowhere to be found. Nor is Wiki.en's "Visions of Europe" (nothing from 6-1990 to be found).



So, after taking Wiki.jp into account...
1) Cream Lemon (OAV) - 20 episodes*
2) Cream Lemon: Ami's Journey (movie)
3) New Cream Lemon (OAV) - 9 episodes
4) Cream Lemon Special: Dark (OAV) - 1 episode
5) Ami Sorekara (OAV) - 4 episodes
6) Mangaka Series (OAV) - 4 episodes
7) Whole Collection Compilation (OAV) - 4 episodes
8) Series Nameless (OAV) - 2 episodes
9) Cream Lemon jr
10) Cream Lemon Perfect Collection
11) Cream Lemon Perfect Works
12) New Century Cream Lemon (OAV) - 2 episodes
13) Cream Lemon (live-action movie)
14) Cream Lemon: New Generation (OAV)

Leaving off the stuff that I'm not sure what even is, this would be my suggestion of what to do.

*Take POP CHASER's current entry, and change that into an entry for the first OAV series
*Confirm if Tabidachi was actually a theatrical release or not. If yes, leave it as its own entry, with a "related to" to the first OAV series. If no, then merge it into the first OAV
*Create entries for New Cream Lemon (OAV), Cream Lemon Special: Dark (OAV), Ami Sorekara (OAV), Mangaka series (OAV), and New Century Cream Lemon (OAV)
*Change Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose into an entry for "Series Nameless" (not sure what we want to call it, that's literally the kanji used on Wiki.jp)
*The live-action movie and New Generation already have entries

What this'll leave us with are the Jr, Perfect Collection, and Perfect Works missing, as well as Whole Collection Compilation, until someone can confirm what they are.

It also leaves us with the Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu (OAV) that neither Wiki.en nor Wiki.jp acknowledge, as well as the "Visions of Europe" OAV that Wiki.jp doesn't list.


Crap, all this took me an hour...
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Calathan
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Joined: 27 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:35 am Reply with quote
Faiga_Raisa wrote:
anime#3552

Pardon if this is the wrong place to post but I didn't see an report feature on the anime's page itself for this particular issue, but as the title says, this entry should exist. Angie & Rose is the title to the 35th episode of Cream Lemon which it is already linked to.


As Dessa pointed out, the main Cream Lemon entry is an omnibus entry. That means it is a group of related anime entries, and not an individual anime.

The Anime Encyclopedia: Revised and Expanded Edition has a detailed entry on the Cream Lemon series (which is what the English Wikipedia page seems to be using as a source). While that entry labels the parts of the franchise as 1-35, I don't think they are all a single series in the way Anime News Network normally lists things. The Anime Encyclopedia says that Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose was released as a bonus with a Cream Lemon - Climax boxed set in 1992. It sounds to me like a special that should have its own entry, and rather than just being listed as one episode of the larger franchise.

Dessa wrote:
*Take POP CHASER's current entry, and change that into an entry for the first OAV series


I think this makes sense, but I think the entry should be just the 16 episodes rather than 20 episodes like you suggest. Someone has submitted the first 13 parts (except part 4) in the submission queue (they incorrectly submitted them with Japanese characters, so just look for 12 entries in a row using Japanese characters). The submissions list http://creamlemon.jp/​history/​index.​html as a source, which seems to be an official site. I notice it lists 16 parts that are actually numbered 1-16, which makes me think that the original OAV series had 16 main parts. Looking at the Japanese Wikipedia page, I think the other 4 things are the Ami movie, the Ami - White Shadow special that The Anime Encyclopedia describes as a teaser for the movie (and which isn't the same thing as the New Cream Lemon episode titled White Shadow), and two things that sound like compilations or edited versions of previous releases (though I'm not 100% sure of that). I think the movie and movie teaser should be separate, and I'm not certain the other things are even unique content, so I think the original entry should just be the 16 episodes. Also, I think that specials are normally given their own entries anyway (e.g., for the Tenchi Muyo franchise things like The Night Before The Carnival and the Mihoshi Special were given their own entries).

Dessa wrote:
*Confirm if Tabidachi was actually a theatrical release or not. If yes, leave it as its own entry, with a "related to" to the first OAV series. If no, then merge it into the first OAV


The Anime Encyclopedia, as well as ANNs entries for Tabidachi - Ami Shusho and Project A-ko say that Tabidachi was released as a double feature with the original Project A-ko film. I definitely think that Tabidachi should keep its own entry.

Dessa wrote:
*Create entries for New Cream Lemon (OAV), Cream Lemon Special: Dark (OAV), Ami Sorekara (OAV), Mangaka series (OAV), and New Century Cream Lemon (OAV)

Dessa wrote:
It also leaves us with the Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu (OAV) that neither Wiki.en nor Wiki.jp acknowledge


I agree with adding entries for any part of the franchise that doesn't have one yet. The impression I'm getting is that the "Climax" entries are boxed sets or "best of" rereleases (based on The Anime Encyclopedia describing one of them as a boxed set). I think that the entry for Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu is probably a mistaken entry for what was actually a rerelease of some or all of the Mangaka series. I'm not at all certain of that, but if my guess is correct, then Cream Lemon Climax - Ninki Manga-ga Zenshu could be changed into an entry for the Mangaka series, rather than creating a new entry for the Mangaka series.

Dessa wrote:
*Change Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose into an entry for "Series Nameless" (not sure what we want to call it, that's literally the kanji used on Wiki.jp)


I disagree with this. I think the Japanese Wikipedia page is saying that those two entries aren't connected to any series. I think each of those should have its own entry in the Encyclopedia. As I mentioned in my reply to Faiga Raisa, Aoi Sei - Angie & Rose was released as a bonus with a box set. I don't think it has any direct connection to the other part of the franchise that the Japanese Wikipedia page lists under the"nameless series" entry.
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