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Hey, Answerman! - In Search of Stability


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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 7580
Location: Wales
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:52 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
HDMI is simply a cable and signal format, which does nothing for the quality of the picture; plenty of other connections exist that can carry an HD signal, including good ol' VGA.

It does make a difference. HDMI is digital, VGA is analogue. To get HD video to a screen via VGA, it needs to be converted from digital to analogue at one end and back to digital again at the other end. Not only does the conversion have an effect on quality, you also then have to deal with signal phase and whatnot. Back before I retired my old PC I had to switch from DVI to VGA because I ran out of inputs and heck was it noticeable on my 1920x1200 monitor (wasn't a major problem since I mostly ran it headless).

I'm not sure where captioning comes into things. BD subtitles arrive on my HDTV via HDMI the same way they did on my old CRT TV from my PS2: they're part of the video.
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Stealth00



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:04 pm Reply with quote
PurpleWarrior13 wrote:
^ I don't see Blu-ray replacing DVD completely. I think it will mostly just remain a high-end DVD. Not everything will benefit with Blu-ray, especially stuff shot on video (most 70s-90s TV shows) or shot/animated in digital SD. This is different from VHS->DVD where everything benefited just from the digital format alone.


A lot of NA anime DVD have scenes where they are bitrate starved. Even digipaint SD can benefit from the extra bitrate it would have on BD. Even Japanese DVD with 2-3 episodes a disc have been shown to occasionally exhibit this.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
To add the progression of video on physical format: BD isn't even enough. Let's say a 70mm film was split onto two BD50s, that's still not enough when you consider the raw scan was on the order of several terabytes, and that 1080p is severely too limiting. Going forward into 4k, when we get real 4k transfers for 70mm and 35mm as well as things initially shot digitally with 4k or 8k, we're gonna need muuuuuch larger discs to hold all that info without harsh compression. Maybe it's not an issue yet, but time always marches on.


Time marches on, but we are fast approaching diminishing returns on traditional HT setups. I don't think people sit close enough to their tvs for these resolutions to mean much. You'd have to be within 9' with a 70" screen for your eyes to even resolve more than 1080p.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:03 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
It does make a difference. HDMI is digital, VGA is analogue. To get HD video to a screen via VGA, it needs to be converted from digital to analogue at one end and back to digital again at the other end.
That's true, though my main point was that he was crediting the cable for the upscaling.
Quote:
I'm not sure where captioning comes into things. BD subtitles arrive on my HDTV via HDMI the same way they did on my old CRT TV from my PS2: they're part of the video.
Closed captioning isn't quite the same(the captioning is written for the hearing impaired and contains slightly different content); BDs don't have any special capabilities, so this is mostly a concern with DVDs and cable.
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Aquasakura



Joined: 01 Jan 2014
Posts: 700
Location: Chesterfield, Virginia, U.S.A
PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Whiskeyii wrote:

Well, in my case, there are quite a few shows that I watch online that a) haven't been licensed, or b) have been licensed, but don't have anything out.

A-cases are a dime a dozen--just look at all the sports shows. But for B-cases, I can think of shows like Case Closed/Detective Conan, which has a US licensor, but hasn't put anything out since the 90s, and Space Brothers, which I think was licensed by Sentai, but we haven't heard a word otherwise since then. Of course, you also have some really odd cases with online manga, where it's listed as "licensed", but again, nothing exists for it outside of Japan (off the top of my head, this applies to the manga Liar Game). In those cases, I honestly don't have any alternatives to streaming, unless I feel like downloading the whole series and storing it on my computer.


I see. I have come across similar cases like that when searching for manga. However I was referring to cases which the source material is readily available in stores, yet people choose streaming over buying them to keep for themselves. Thanks for responding anyway. Smile

Zalis116 wrote:

I'm with you on this too, Aquasakura. For all the flaws in the DVD format, at least you usually get complete translations and the home video version of the series, as opposed to bitrate-starved HD streams of the TV broadcast version with untranslated songs.


Thank you! ^ ^ Although I never consider those advantages.

Quote:

And eventually, more and more releases will be Blu-Ray only, even if it takes longer than the VHS -> DVD transition. Like I said: keeping up with the times, and future-proofing as well.


Speaking of which with this conversation of transitioning to DVD to Blue rays or not how long did it took for the majority of people to convert from VHS to DVDs? I ask because it does seem that the transition from videos to DVD happen much sooner than it is with people converting from DVDs to blur rays.

Touma wrote:

That is the implication.
There are people who claim that Internet video will make physical media obsolete, but I totally disagree with that.
Blu-ray will make DVD obsolete.
Eventually something else (possibly a solid state device) will make Blu-ray obsolete.
But we will always have physical releases of some kind.
The only way that physical media will be obsolete is if the Internet offers us all unlimited and unrestricted access to everything that has been or could be recorded on physical media. I really do not see that happening anytime in the foreseeable future.


Good point. Unless the day comes which we can have access to our favorite media without fear of being taken down online, we need physical copies if we want to keep enjoying the entertainment we like concerning our favorite shows/movies of course as well as books (but I would always prefer to have physical copies of this media over digital so I would like if both print and digital can coexist). Also what is a solid state device?[/quote]
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Stealth00



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:38 am Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:

Speaking of which with this conversation of transitioning to DVD to Blue rays or not how long did it took for the majority of people to convert from VHS to DVDs? I ask because it does seem that the transition from videos to DVD happen much sooner than it is with people converting from DVDs to blur rays.


DVD revenue exceeded VHS for home video releases in 2001, players started coming out around 1995. Good luck figuring out when/if BD surpasses DVD, as I believe combo packs are always considered BD marketshare.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:59 am Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:
Also what is a solid state device?

A solid state device is a USB flash drive or memory card or anything like that.
You can buy cards now that have more storage and faster access than a Blu-ray disc.

Right now those cards are too expensive to be used for mass distribution of entertainment.
Also, somebody would need to develop standards for both the physical devices and the data structure. That would be like the Blu-ray vs HD DVD wars.
But both of those problems could be overcome.

I have no idea if we ever will see anime on memory cards. I was just using it as an example of another physical medium that could replace Blu-ray.
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AnimeKnight2034



Joined: 07 Jan 2014
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
That is not true. The second version could be interpreted various ways and not just angry. For example imagining a little kid telling another to shut up and throwing a tantrum which could make it sound like a whining tone rather than an angry tone. By emphasizing he said it angrily, it confirms his tone is that of anger, not of whining or complaining. I'd say a good writing will make sure his intent is clarified, rather than leaving it vague like that in case the reader misintreprets the scene.

I agree with you. People who act like there's a guideline for writing seem very close minded or are simply parroting what their peers say without much thought. "Show don't tell' is one of those rules I disagree with. If a series wants to explain something, especially when it's necessary like explaining a backstory or how a technique or device works, it seems just fine.

I always dislike it when people try to pull subjective rules out when critiquing a work. It implies the rules are absolute from the gods, and not just created by someone personal opinion. And if they try to write themselves, they'll try to do something differently just because of some made up rule.


Finally, someone who gets it. The idea that there are "rules" to writing is a bunch of garbage. Rules are meant to be broken guys. So what if light novels don't adhere to your stodgy 19th century literature standards? I have a hard time believing that people today are dumber than people living over a hundred years ago. So if they're not dumber, then that means what popular now is generally going to be smarter than what was written then. F*** Moby Dick.

I actually enjoy that anime has a lot of characters stating things. If a character mentions that they're sad, that's it and now we know explicitly. If they just standing there looking sad, we can't be 100% sure. Is she sad, depressed, melancholy, unhappy? Who knows.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Aquasakura wrote:
Speaking of which with this conversation of transitioning to DVD to Blue rays or not how long did it took for the majority of people to convert from VHS to DVDs? I ask because it does seem that the transition from videos to DVD happen much sooner than it is with people converting from DVDs to blur rays.
Blu-ray is an evolutionary technology, whereas DVD was revolutionary. In comparison to VHS, DVDs have a higher resolution, more space, chapter select, special features, no rewinding and, most importantly by far, no VCR going OMNOMNOM on your tapes. In comparison to DVD, BDs have a higher resolution, more space, better subtitles, tough-as-nails coating(which can be used on DVDs too), fancy menus and some Java crap nobody ever uses to my knowledge.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 649
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:33 pm Reply with quote
nightjuan wrote:
ATastySub wrote:
Everyone can have an opinion. That's true. What's not is that they are all equal. Those that study art, film, literature, etc have a more valid opinion because they know what they are talking about. No amount of screaming subjectivity will make the opinion of the average person mean more than those of the critics who devote themselves to analyzing a craft.

You can like bad things. Everyone does. There's no need to force yourself to justify that everything you like is good. You'll probably even enjoy things more once you get rid of the knee-jerk reaction to defend every fault of everything you like.


The problem with this kind of argument is that it completely ignores the underlying fact that professional art, film or literature critics are still human beings and not robots.

They might have more academic knowledge due to formal training, but their own emotions, interpretations and preferences are still going to influence their opinions, in both positive and negative ways, and they can likewise follow different schools of thought regarding how movies or television shows should be approached and analyzed.

Critics do not universally agree with each other all the time, at least outside of the more extreme cases, and even then there are still exceptions. This diversity of reactions isn't exclusively restricted to the uninitiated masses.

Reviewer A can argue that the exposition in X episode of an anime was too boring for him or her, which causes that person to give a bad overall rating to it, yet Reviewer B might not believe so and could place more of an emphasize on discussing a different aspect of the episode, leading to a higher score. Would you be "forcing yourself" to justify liking "bad things" if you happen to agree with Reviewer B instead of A?

You do realized we're arguing the same thing, right? Reviewer A and B can have different points. Say they both review a schlocky horror movie. A says, "This is badly shot, unnecessarily violent, and I hated the experience." B says, "This is a badly shot, incredibly violent, but I enjoyed it." Then they both explain why. That's how reviews work, and readers find out who they agree with and then trust that opinion because it aligns with theirs. A portion of this forum, and everywhere else, doesn't seem to understand that the "explain why" part exists. Look at the shit storm that happened when Zac said he didn't like the airsoft show. His why? Because it featured school children fantasizing about shooting each other, and living in America where that shit happens all the time makes that content extremely disquieting. That's a completely valid point for a review. If someone doesn't like the idea of gun violence, they should not watch that show and should tell others that (USING THIS AS AN EXAMPLE, PLEASE DO NOT DERAIL THE THREAD BY BRINGING UP STUPID GUN ARGUMENTS).

Here's the part where we apparently disconnected. Academics and art. Yes, art is subjective as hell, but that doesn't mean it cannot be studied and understood. Why have stories like Gilgamesh and Beowulf lasted through centuries? Why are Citizen Kane and Bicycle Thieves examples of the best cinema? Why are Michael Bay movies hated by critics but loved by audiences? We can answer those things far better than by saying, "It's all subjective." Good stories stick with us. Excellent use of everything a medium has to offer to convey a story. And lastly, because not everything has to be high art. Low-brow entertainment has existed for as long as we have. The classic example is Shakespeare, who wrote as many fart jokes as he did soliloquies. Back to the original point, "Show don't tell" is a rule of story telling for a reason. We have centuries of proof showing that proper telling of a story can make or break it, and how best to do so. To pretend it doesn't exist because one end story might still work for some despite its weaker delivery is plain silly. As for the idea that rules are meant to be broken, that requires an incredibly sound knowledge of the rules in order to properly twist or invert them in order to still maintain the intent of the piece. Refusing to improve yourself or your work through blind ignorance or selfish arrogance may occasionally be whimsical or charming, but when further inspected can tear apart any story or message that was attempted.

I'm probably rambling by now, but going to make a final note since I mentioned low-brow. The argument that normally comes out anytime academics and high/low brow is mentioned is, "Well who's to decide what is low and what is high?" and that is the point I've been making. Those that study it. That's where the opinion of the everyday viewer and the academics are not equal. It's the difference between what shapes people's cultures and history compared to what keeps them from being bored for a few hours. It's recognizing the patterns and traits that speak to people and become remembered rather than forgotten. I know in the age of the internet it sucks to sometimes be told that your opinion doesn't always matter, but that's how it is. Just like any other field, those that have the background, the experience, and the knowledge to prove and defend their points will always be more important than a random person that happens to "like" something (myself included). I mean, that's what the column this forum thread is in is all about. Asking questions to to the Answerman because he has the background, the knowledge, and the experience to give answers. It's odd that the same logic gets lost between the column and the thread.
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Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6867
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:33 pm Reply with quote
Alan45 wrote:
I'm using a 46 inch 1080p television and both the DVD player and the Blu-ray player provide upscaling to 1080p. All my old DVDs look just as good as they ever did, and in fact better than they did without the upscaling.

Yes, the Patlabor TV DVDs look bad compared to the Blu-ray version, but they don't look any worse than they ever did.

If you can afford a 1080p TV and a Blu-ray player, I think you are cheating yourself.
DVDs aren't the only low-resolution media out there, though -- the downloaded anime I've amassed over the years are heavily skewed to SD versions, and I can't imagine them looking too good on a 1080p TV. Especially not older files encoded in XviD or DivX. At typical viewing distance, they look better on my 32" 720p HDTV than on my 20" 1600x900 monitor. Some of them could be replaced by HD versions, which would require more bandwidth and disk space, but many older shows aren't available in HD to begin with.

And then there's VHS and old game consoles (AKA "the only kind of consoles I own"), though I could still use my CRT for those.

Plus, being able to afford a 1080p TV is/was questionable. I only got my first and current HDTV secondhand, in early 2013, because a friend of mine happens to manage a pawn shop and cut me a deal. So rather than "cheating myself," I think of it as making a small sacrifice to strike a "middle of the road" course.
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Alan45
Village Elder



Joined: 25 Aug 2010
Posts: 9848
Location: Virginia
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:00 pm Reply with quote
@Zalis116
Since what you have is what you feel you can afford, than that is all that needs be said. I just wanted to make sure you understood that a better TV would not make your existing DVDs look bad. As far as older media is concerned, that is why you keep that older equipment.

If you have not already done so, you should get a Blu-ray player if it will play on your current set. That way you can get Blu-ray for purchases of current shows.
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Lavnovice9



Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:54 pm Reply with quote
ATastySub wrote:
Just like any other field, those that have the background, the experience, and the knowledge to prove and defend their points will always be more important than a random person that happens to "like" something (myself included).


Who's opinion on anime matters more than your own? I'm curious, because anime doesn't have a reviewing scene like movies do, or even video games. There's no Metacritic or Rotten Tomatoes for anime (thank god) so who is this mysterious illuminati of anime experts who decides what is objectively good or bad?

Not that it really matters or anything. Sales are what's important and drive the industry, not what some dude on a blog or YouTube video says.
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Stealth00



Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:26 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
DVDs aren't the only low-resolution media out there, though -- the downloaded anime I've amassed over the years are heavily skewed to SD versions, and I can't imagine them looking too good on a 1080p TV. Especially not older files encoded in XviD or DivX. At typical viewing distance, they look better on my 32" 720p HDTV than on my 20" 1600x900 monitor.


You can't really compare a tv and a computer monitor like that, the monitor is sharper, revealing more flaws. Just try hooking up your tv to your computer without turning it to pc mode.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23799
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:52 am Reply with quote
I've maintained for years that anything that can be provided digitally will eventually only be available digitally. So all physical media will be a relic of the past: BDs, DVDs, CDs, books, etc. I make no prediction as to by what date this will be true, but it is coming.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:56 am Reply with quote
^
I think that it will happen when we are colonizing the moons of Neptune.
Nobody will want to lug a lot of heavy books way out there.

Until then I will keep buying the books and discs.
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