Forum - View topicNANA -- general discussion.
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Mika Miaka
 Posts: 11 |
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I wholeheartedly agree. It was weird, I got this really lonely feeling as I was watching the series, but it was strangely docile. Everyone cared deeply for each other, but there was always a disconnect. It was frustrating to watch, and yet, you just had to find out how it would all unwind. I went into Nana not knowing what to expect, and am kind of disappointed that Hachi didn't turn into a career woman. I wanted to see her succeed on her own. I thought that she perhaps would have gotten into publishing and climb the ladder to editor-in-chief -- but that was not the case, and not what it was about. Her weaknesses destroy me. It was painful to watch. I see her and think, I never want to be like that -- so self-absorbed, as if your life and your happiness was the only thing that mattered. Or whether such selfishness can be forgiven because of innocence and ignorance. I wonder sometimes if it is realistic, or a cliche of what a woman desires -- or whether, realism and cliches are one and the same. I suppose in the end, no one is happy in this series because they can never let their baggage go. |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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But she never expressed a desire to become a career woman--she only worried about working to impress others. Hachi always quietly made it clear that her dream was to become a housewife and mother. And while I'm certain she would have wanted it to be much, much different, she still persevered past her mistakes to become much stronger in her newly created family. She found ways to keep herself from being useless, even if those weren't things that are necessarily highly regarded (or paid for) by others. She still had some longings, but what became her focus was creating a happy and healthy home for her family. Hachi as a career woman would have disappointed me. It would have said that in this day, people aren't allowed a choice. It's career or nothing. If she were forced (truly forced) into becoming domestic, I would have been opposed. But this was her desire (although differently than envisioned), so I find it most fitting. I personally think Hachi is one of the strongest characters of the series. Every time she acts weakly, she acknowledges. While other struggle to figure out what makes them act one way or another, avoiding the reasons, Hachi understands what her weaknesses are and makes her choices based on her understanding of them. She's weak-willed, certainly, but she knows how to turn a bad situation into something she can cherish. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I think that is the best understanding of Hachi I've ever seen and I 100% agree. She really does understand who she is better than most of the other characters. She got a bit confused about it during the Nobu period but that was because he put her up on such a pedestal and she really wanted to live up to it. But she did eventually realize she couldn't and I think she also understands that Takumi, while not perfect, is the best for her because I think he also sees who she really is. |
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epixeltwin
 Posts: 325 Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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NANA is AMAZING. Clearly one of my favorite shows/mangas. And I'm just sooo eager for the manga chapter to come out each month...
Ai Yaizawa's story rips your heart out again and again. It's pretty sad but terribly good and you get a strong attachment to all the characters through their hardships. Personally my favorite character is Yasu...how could anyone NOT like him? 
Also, marie-antoinette, you say
that's not really it IMHO. According to the manga and to what she says in the anime IIRC (I don't really remember what part of the story is the anime and what part is the manga...), she just goes with him because he was the one there at that moment, and she knows she was weak and selfish for it. She really was in love with Nobu and it pains her that she could not stay with him. From the moment the incident happens you can see a clear change in Hachi's attitude, it's like she's a bit more detached. Yes, she still laughs and everything, but I think that moment made her lose the last spark of youth, that last drop of innocence she had in her heart that was already broken & abused countless times. She becomes kind of more "adult" and thinks more practically about the baby, herself, etc., but it's like she's kind of estranged from everything. She stays home alone, cooks, shops and all, but mostly she's just alone, thinking, waiting for Takumi, just watching her life go by. She very well knows that she will not live with love, that it won't work out with Takumi. And that's yet another thing that makes her long for Nana.... |
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Alestal
 Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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I've only seen the anime(several times) but my impression of Nana's and Nobu's relationship was that it was made of 80% Nobu's infatuation and 20% Nana's lonelyness. I think the Takumi-Nana relationship will last much more longer, he's way more responsible and he seems willing to stick by her, if Nobu was in the situation in reverse I think he'd probably ditch her.
I also agree with Mylene's observations of Nana's character, Nana realized the mistakes she was making and was always striving to become better. |
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epixeltwin
Posts: 325 Location: Montreal, Qc, Canada |
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In fact the anime is 100% faithful to the manga, it's the exact same story with nothing added and nothing taken away. And IMHO it supports what I say pretty well.
Yes, hachi hates being alone, but she truly was in love with Nobu, and in fact she had dreamt of a love like his for a long time. Since the very beginning of the story, a love story like the one with Nobu had been the kind she had been looking for. If anything, Hachi's relation with TAKUMI was there just to fill the void, it's that empty relation that she just used for the sake of not being alone. Just look at how cold they are together, they just have sex to fill up the void and then that's it. Time and time again, be it manga or anime, you can obviously see that she regrets her time with Nobu and that she would go back to it if she could. She is obviously still very fond of Nobu but stays with Takumi for the baby. She knows that Takumi is far from the ideal man and that he is going to neglect her. As for Takumi...he is in no way responsible. He neglects her, shows affection now and then just when she asks for it or when she gets pissed. Also, in the story after the anime spoiler[you see him cheating on her at least three times IIRC...including once with Reira]. Truly, Takumi is the character I understand the least. Sometimes he really seems like he truly loves hachi and cares for her. Sometimes he seems like so eager to have a baby... But then he just neglects her or his affection seems fake because it lasts for one day (or rather one night ...). It's the same with Reira... most of the time he is cold towards Reira, and then woops suddenly he seems like he cares about her a lot. I just DON'T get what's going through his head. I have absolutely no clue about what he wants or what he cares about (besides Trapnest of course..but then it's almost like he unconsciously wants the band to split the way he acts sometimes) |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I think that it's fine if you want to interpret it that way and I do think Nana did love Nobu in a way but I also believe she loves Takumi as well. And I do believe in the end that being with Takumi is far better for her than being with Nobu and not just from a financial point of view (though admittedly that is important too, with the baby on the way). But Takumi challenges her and Nobu never did.
Takumi is definitely hard to understand and I don't think I completely have him figured out either. But I still do think he's the one who sees most clearly who Nana is and understand what she needs. And he does give some of it to her. But he's not perfect (and neither is Nobu, for that matter, since I don't think he would have been able to handle the pregnancy very well). |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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Yeah, you have to remember that Nana has a big heart and she can really make the best out of her situation. She really was the character that kept on growing and moving forward, for someone who exerts so much weakness she's very strong. Nobu and Nana would fight all the time over Nana's little jabs, Takumi would be patient and wait for her to feel better. Nana needs a man who knows what he wants, not a boy who doesn't even accept the responsiblities his parents ask of him.
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Maybe a little harsher on Nobu than I would be but definitely a fair assessment. He's just not in the place in his life where he's ready to have the responsibilities of being a father - and that isn't a bad thing either, especially considering he was the one who used protection and was being responsible about not getting Nana pregnant. I do wonder about Takumi not using it and if he subconsciously wanted something to happen, though I think it also shows his ego as well (and boy does he have an ego). |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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Thats an interesting idea, Takumi obviously wanted something from Nana other then sex (he could get that from any girl), and he didn't use protection several times... interesting.
It's a regrettable situation in general, Nana's so young and she still had growing of her own to do. Regarding the series in general, the ending spoiler[what was the deal with the flashback? I've seen in several times but I keep wondering about future scenes, why Nana isn't there?] |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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It's actually a spoiler[flashforward and the reasons why Nana isn't there is explained in chapters of the manga that the anime has not reached yet (though I would be very surprised if there was never a second season made, given how popular this manga is in Japan and other places as well).] I'll put the manga spoilers on their own here, they go up to one of the last chapters to be released, if not the last chapter that was done, it's been awhile since I checked for new ones: spoiler[Ren was killed in a car accident and it looks as though Nana just disappeared. Most of the other regular characters have appeared, at least all of Blast has, as well as Nana and her daughter, Satsuki. It looks as though they may have finally found a trace of where Nana ended up.] (There is more that has happened but I decided not to mention it, since it was strictly relevant to spoiler[why Nana hasn't appeared in these scenes.] |
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Alestal
Posts: 605 Location: Dallas, Texas |
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It really angers me that they flashforwarded without a second season lined up to go. *covers his eyes on the manga spoilers*
I wish I was more of a manga reader. 
Definatly would be nice for series like Nana, Beck, Paradise Kiss, and a couple of my other favorite shows. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I think/hope that they are waiting for the manga to end before doing a second season, which really is the best we can hope for since then they won't have to come up with a typically lame anime-only ending to the story. That would really suck after the anime followed the manga so closely. |
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Mika Miaka
Posts: 11 |
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You're kind of right. For me, I went into Nana not knowing what it was about at all. So when I see a girl from a small town follow her BF to a big city, has money problems, lands a publishing job and offers advice to her boss about articles with modern men cooking, I thought that it would head in this direction. But, that was my bad for these cliche views, I suppose. I also thought at first that Nana and Hachi would develop a romantic relationship with each other too, esp. with Hachi's declaration that "if Nana was a boy, she would be the love of my life." But, that didn't turn out the way I thought it would either. And as a previous poster said, the stories in Nana really do rip your hear out. Just like Loveless, the series is just full of lonely people in constant pain. Oi. There can never be a happy ending for them due to the implicit nature of their characters. |
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corinthian
Posts: 264 |
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I believe that is what they are doing precisely for that reason. I may be making this up, but I think the production company said as such. The series is probably winding down after 20+ volumes, so the wait shouldn't be too much longer (in terms of anime production time) |
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