Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: A Place Further Than the Universe
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Joshua Zarate
Posts: 2061 |
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@ Blood- It’s extremely likely that you’re the only person who feels that way. The fact that the anime didn’t show us the classmates’ reactions to Shirase’s outburst was very much intended to show that they weren’t trying to be genuine at all. That they were only doing it to make themselves feel better and not much more. Also, while it may sound like it could be interesting for a certain thing to happen in an anime, it doesn’t mean that it will always work and very possible to cause more harm than good. Always be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it. There’s nothing wrong with doing something familiar if one does it very well, just like Episode 11 did. wastrel and zrnzle500 both make solid points as well.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I have to agree with the others that ALL indications were to the contrary. The most "damning" bits being a) the one girl working on her makeup while the camera feed is on her before they "go live" rather than looking remotely anxious about her "friend", and b) the fact that Hinata had been working at the combini for a WHILE. If the girls wanted to reconcile, they had PLENTY of time to do so. Heck, Kimari's friend had time to try to sabotage her trip to Antarctica AND her friendship with Shirase and THEN admit to it all and somewhat reconcile in the entire time we've known Hinata and she clearly left her school a good bit before that. And its ridiculous to think it's EASIER to contact her in Antarctica rather than in Japan. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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Well, the friends also sent her an email message (that was supposed to be private), part of which read, "We're sorry for leaving you all alone." To me that contradicts zrnzle500 contention that, "When were her former track mates trying to apologize and make amends? They may have been sincere in supporting her but they seemed more like they were trying to feign ignorance about why Hinata left the track team and school." If the show was trying to convey the message that the ex-friends were being insincere, I wish they had done a better job of it. @HeeroTX - the first time we see the three girls, there is no make up doing and they looked sheepish to me. I have no idea whether the girls could see or hear Hinata sobbing on the sidelines when Shirase was tearing them a new one, but if they could, it kind of belies the message that, "Hinata is doing fine now, no thanks to you lot." |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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Her "friends" first appear at about 1:05 in the episode. One could arguably say they look tentative, but one can easily argue that this is because they have no idea what Hinata will do/say (since it later becomes clear that they're not REALLY all that close to her). I think it's just as telling that in Hinata's flashback, despite "encouraging" her to go all out, NO ONE cheers for her when she's announced as a starter for the team. If you want to see them ACTUALLY looking sheepish, go to 12:00 when they're being griped at by the upperclassmen for not getting Hinata to mind the pecking order. Also compare her old school mates to her CURRENT friends who all look genuinely concerned for her throughout the episode. The other girls NEVER look anywhere close to as concerned as Shirase.
I grant that the FIRST interaction is left ambiguous, but since the entire episode is ABOUT Hinata opening up about her past, that's clearly intentional. And since the whole thing is scripted, there's no reason to show the girls primping themselves (as they're doing at the end) if they're supposed to be sympathetic. Also, if they were being sincere, you don't reintroduce them when Hinata (obviously) no longer "needs" them. What kind of person is that, that will be there if its "easy" (or beneficial to themselves) but NEVER when it is difficult. Also, there's numerous anime showing how terrible the particular "ostracize this one person" form of bullying is, especially for girls. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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Look, if you want to take the attitude that, "zomg, it was so obvious they were being insincere!" then have at it. It wasn't to me. Maybe Joshua Zarate is correct in thinking I'm the only one in the world who saw that episode and felt that it wasn't terribly clear. As for the girls "primping" themselves... one girl is kind of fiddling with her hair as she looks in the mirror. Again, if that screams LOOK AT THE INSINCERITY!!! to you, fine. It doesn't to me. In fact, I kind of missed in during my first watch.
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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For comparison I just went back and watched Episode 5 where you get to see Megu-chan apologize for "being a bad friend", it's pretty different. And the primping matters IMO because look at both girls (Kimari & Megu) at the end of that. They're BOTH flat out wrecked. It's an interesting episode that has a lot of little details that I didn't catch the first time. (like Hinata looks at her track shoes before she leaves) In retrospect you can see all the girls leaving their "regrets" behind. (Hinata with the whole track thing, Yuzuki erases her schoolmates contact info, Shirase closes a message from/to her mother) It's also noteworthy that the Hinata/Shirase interaction from this episode played out before re: Kimari's "problem". Shirase wants to confront people that're talking about her behind her back and Hinata wants to just ignore them.
It's interesting to consider that Kimari (in Ep. 5) is probably the ONLY one that's actually "leaving" her friends (again, we get the contrast of Kimari getting a big send off from her classmates, we don't get that for any of the other girls, aside from Yuzuki getting a hug from her mother, no one else is seen doing ANY good-byes). It's worth considering that before this trip ALL the other girls were actually "alone" albeit in different ways and for different reasons. I think that's part of WHY they've become such good friends, because they all kind of "needed" it. I also don't think it's coincidental that this most recent episode comes right on the heels of Yuzuki learning about what real friendship is. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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I didn't really pick up on a lot of insincerity from the girls, but just a kind of selfish opportunism. They probably hadn't thought much about her until she became kind of famous and saw an opportunity to address some of the guilt they felt. I think that message is far more powerful than the idea that they were only doing it to get on TV, because the act of explicitly moving on from people because they aren't good friends is more interesting and compelling to me than moving on from people who aren't friends at all.
So Joshua Zarate is wrong here, there is at least one other person who saw things the same way, but I think the message is in many ways better this way. Making everything black and white can cheapen emotional presentations like this. Not showing the girls' reaction registered to me the same way as to the reviewer: a clear statement that this isn't about them. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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And the "this isn't about them" thing is related to a problem I mentioned earlier... I wasn't happy that Shirase got the "hero" role in telling the girls off while Hinata sobbed in gratitude on the sidelines. It was her story but she didn't get the meatiest role.
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Joshua Zarate
Posts: 2061 |
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Note that I didn’t say that Blood- was factually the only person who felt like he did. I simply said that it was very likely and that, by itself, still doesn’t mean that it was 100%. Just because some people didn’t pick up on the insincerity of Hinata’s classmates doesn’t mean it still wasn’t there. About Shirase’s outburst and Hinata not getting the “meatiest” role, it was completely in character for things to turn out that way. Just because it wasn’t Hinata that was front and center at that part doesn’t mean it worked any less well than it did.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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Well, naturally that is a matter of opinion. Would you not agree that, generally speaking, it is more interesting when a character sticks up for herself rather than have somebody else do it for her? Shirase's big moment is coming... can't some of the other characters do something cool for themselves? I am a little suspicious of anybody who says that Shirase doing the talking works just as well as Hinata doing it. That sort of flies in the face of the "rule" of good drama that states a character having a problem should be the one to solve the problem (although nothing wrong with solving the problem with a little help from friends... as long as their action doesn't overshadow you). But hey, if you feel differently, what can I say? |
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Joshua Zarate
Posts: 2061 |
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What I’m ultimately trying to get across here is Episode 11 did a good job of achieving a theme that the show is going for and it fit well in context of what was built up to that point in time and, important to note, felt genuine and heartfelt. Hinata wasn’t the type to do what Shirase did and that’s okay. Since it was brought up, there also exists the possibility that Shirase’s upcoming big moment may have her friends doing cool things for her. If achieving a certain type of theme well suddenly stops an anime from being “good,” then I don’t have much else to say on this matter and thus will be moving on. ‘Till next episode.
EDIT: HeeroTX brought up good points that mention what the show has done and has built up to. |
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Collectonian
 Posts: 104 Location: Texas |
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I thought it worked will in contrast to the previous Hinata/Shirase episode. In that one, Hinata revealed her issues with people helping her or depending on people. This time, Hinata didn't angrily tell Shirase to just butt out or quit trying to help her, instead she let her friends be friends. As for Shirase's out burst, I thought it fit all four girls quite well at this point. Shirase was being Shirase, and Hinata I think wasn't sobbing in gratitude over her doing it, but rather in it finally clicking the difference between her new, real friends, and the sometimey nobodies she thought were friends before. |
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MJKS
Posts: 102 |
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I would say the direction the climax took effectively illustrated the reciprocal nature of Hinata and Shirase's relationship. Specifically, Hinata has given Shirase plenty of tough love about finding confidence in front of an audience--including literally pushing her to give a rousing speech to the crew before the ship's departure from Fremantle. In that way, Shirase standing up for Hinata at a moment when the latter was most vulnerable was an powerful expression of love and appreciation. Perhaps not meat, but sweet sustaining marrow.
When you put it that way, that scene made excellent use of the show's standing water motif. |
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mc55
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I have no idea, personally, if the folks were supposed to be seen as sincere or not. I don't think the eppy was clear on how long they'd tried to contact her. There are so many layers here to go through. If they were sincere, they should have stopped contacting her, as it clearly upset here. We also don't know how long they tried contacting her. Was it just that they started when she got mildly well-known and they could be on tv for her, or did they try before?
My own honest answer is that I was uncomfortable with how it ended. I think that forgiveness is a good thing. Of course, forgiveness means it can't be offered unless sincerely asked for, and also it means that one doesn't have to be friends again to forgive. I can forgive someone, wish them well, and then speak to them or not speak to them again. If someone is insincere, I can't forgive them. I know not everyone shares my morality and such, but I am just saying that I'm not thrilled with the emphasis and defense of the power of sticking it to people. With the exception of Kimari forgiving her friend, who didn't want it, the ethos of the show seems to be partly about that. You can't count Shirase and Gin, since Shirase never really felt Gin did anything wrong. So this and the episode a few back that were about how mean the "victim" Japan was really irritated me. That one more so. Nowadays, yah, things are long overdue for some examination because some of the stuff in various international and national legal stuff are from a Japan that is no longer what it was, but back then, there was every reason to act as countries acted. That whole attitude of the episode then really irked me. Japan was NOT the victim then, but one of the truly bloody and nasty aggressors. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23812 |
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Exactly. This was one of the things that bothered me as well and why I highlighted that for me I would have appreciated a more clear cut indication that the ex-friends were being insincere. It's worth looking at the dialogue between Shirase and Hinata just before the telecast: H: Do you think I'll feel better if I forgive them? S: You want to forgive them? H: If it would make me feel better, I might. But when I imagine them looking all reiieved aftewards, it gets under my skin. S: "Piss off?" H: Yeah. I'm a pretty petty person, aren't I? (note: yeah, if your reason for not wanting to forgive your ex-friends is you don't want them feeling relieved at obtaining forgiveness, that's petty.) Later on when Shirase is berating the ex-friends she says: S:You can't live your lives in this halfway state forever! You hurt someone and made them suffer! Now you get to live with that! That's what you get for hurting someone! That's what you get for hurting my friend! You think you can come crawling back now? Piss off! Ugh. Great message. Hey, if you ever do something shitty to someone, don't ever bother trying to make amends down the line... just live with your guilt forever! 
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