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Answerman - How Much Of The Doujinshi Scene Is Porn?


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ninjamitsuki



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 591
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:50 am Reply with quote
NormanS wrote:
Comiket also has a very diverse music scene. I look forward to the music from comiket every time. For example i look forward to Wavform's Back to Summer 3 album

The Touhou music scene is also very fascinating, theres a whole range of genres from metal, rock, trance, disco, funk,etc of the same touhou track.

I'm in the same boat. I don't even give a shit about the manga, porn or not, I'm all about the music.
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dark_bozu



Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 208
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:52 am Reply with quote
Super_M wrote:
Quote:
Of course, nobody actively tracks what is porn and what isn't. That said, they do track what franchises are having doujinshi made of them. The last two years have been dominated by the Fate franchise, and most recently, Kantai Collection, The Idolmaster, Touhou Project and Touken Ranbu have been the top hits. Fujoshi favorites Yuri!!! on Ice, Kuroko's Basketball and Tiger and Bunny have also cropped up a lot in recent years.


Mobage usually have good characters design and many characters to choose from, so I'm not surprise that this type of media get most doujinshi. Mobile games are not famous for good plot so I wonder if most artist care about character personality or draw solely for her/his desgin.


I think it's because comiket is the most effective way to earn money by selling porn. There's story-driven doujinshi based on FGO, but of course porn is more desirable among comiket audience (thanks to a big amount of lewd characters and due to low amount of ways to get those doujinshi with favourite characters outside of comiket).
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Gilles Poitras



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 476
Location: Oakland California
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:36 am Reply with quote
Jadeliger wrote:
With a large proportion of works available being R18+ is Comiket age restricted?


Nope. They do include warnings to parents in their literature, and you have to be at least 18 to buy the adult stuff.

There is plenty of non-ero dōjinshi for sale. One year I found a group doing manuals for classic cameras that are no longer made. The level of detail was excellent, very much in the style of manuals you get with new cameras today. I also bought some excellent architecture dōjinshi, including some of famous buildings as dresses for cute girls. I do wish I had picked up more of the tabloid newspapers about the scandalous doings at Maison Ikkoku. Those were very clever and even included real adds for real Maison Ikkoku related goods.
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Dan297na



Joined: 19 Apr 2009
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:40 am Reply with quote
Wait, so is there no more Answerman column after this one? That's too bad, I enjoyed reading Justin's insight into the industry over the years. Is Justin still going to be involved with the site anymore?
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Spastic Minnow
Bargain Hunter
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Joined: 02 May 2006
Posts: 4613
Location: Gainesville, FL
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:54 am Reply with quote
Dan297na wrote:
Wait, so is there no more Answerman column after this one? That's too bad, I enjoyed reading Justin's insight into the industry over the years. Is Justin still going to be involved with the site anymore?


According to a post on twitter someone else will take over but it will likely not involve emailed question submissions anymore.

Staff page still has him listed as "Editor-at-large (Editor Emeritus)"... So probably just informally.
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Aca Vuksa



Joined: 22 Mar 2018
Posts: 643
Location: Nis, Serbia
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Dan297na wrote:
Wait, so is there no more Answerman column after this one? That's too bad, I enjoyed reading Justin's insight into the industry over the years. Is Justin still going to be involved with the site anymore?


Someone gonna replaces him, we'll just have to wait and see.
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ShadowAssailantX



Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Яeverse wrote:
feels like the writer is just phoning in it as there was nothing here that one couldnt have easily wrote themselves.

Using kurobas still, why when more recent series of such types could have been used instead.


I've been reading this column on and off for years and I feel like I've been disappointed 95% of the time. It's hard to remember if it used to be better before it was handed off a few times to new writers. It always seems they will take questions where the answer is quite obvious already and then right a two or three paragraph opinion piece devoid of any facts or novel insight into the topic.

I know it might be difficult to get actual statistics on certain topics but every single column always kind of boils down to "well yeah I think so". If these are supposed to be geared towards fresh fans of the industry only, it certainly isn't made clear anywhere. And for opinion pieces they really lack any strong voice to the opinions offered and the writing style itself.

Plenty of Articles get written on this site that are well-researched, well-written, and thought out. This column and its writers have never been any of those things and I am not sad at all to see it go.
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Yuvelir



Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 1571
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:17 pm Reply with quote
Wait, if people are aware about Comiket but they don't know about doujins or the porn... what DO they know?

Blanchimont wrote:
That seems...little.

I was expecting 30-40% actually.
As you might be aware by now, there is more than you can do without porn than you can do with it. When it comes to fan art, you get to explore some joke, situation or character in more detail than you would if 2/3 of them have to be porn. Then there's original works and "fanart sketchbooks" where the author just rambles and draws stuff they have liked; which can go either way but the latter of which has a definitive higher ratio of SFW (many of the mangaka I follow still regularly output both of those, as do a ton of illustrators like the arch-famous Kantoku).
And then there's all the "weirder" stuff like guidebooks, cursebooks, photobooks, taking a silly concept and iterating on it, etc. which don't lend themselves that much for titilation.
Lastly also consider that many circles use the chance to gain notoriety or hone their skills so it's in their best interest to cover as many bases as possible.
So if anything that almost 1:1 ratio tells you how horny the scene is haha.

#884745 wrote:
The doujin that aren't porn are the ones that are the real waste of time. All doujin that I've seen are basically just two-second romantic scenes between whatever ships they like, so they might as well go all the way. I have yet to see any doujin from Japan that have long, complex plots or AU scenarios - oh, except this one series of doujin about the pairing as a prince and butler in an AU, which, yeah, half the chapters were sex scenes, and the other half were empty mini-interactions. No real overarching plot or character depth...

Well, of [expletive] course you won't be getting LONG plots from THIN books drawn by fans within a couple of months in their free time. It would make no sense.
Although as that example you've provided, there are quite a few doujin series, both porn and SFW. Some of them have even found a publisher to put out a couple of tankoubon.

Back to the first line, why must it be porn, long complex plots or AU scenarios to be worth anything? Quite often the original series itself doesn't meet any of those criteria either!
Some of my favourite doujins are just the artist drawing what could easily be a normal chapter/episode in the series centered on whatever theme they want, and that's perfectly fine.

Meongantuk wrote:
Another reason why companies usually ignore doujinsi is because nowadays, the industry is filled by doujin artists (both active and inactive). The non-doujin artist are usually old people or those who lucky enough to make a breakout manga/novel. Unless they like to be called hypocrites, they won't close the path that made them big.

Not to mention that culling your own talent pool is very bad business.
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Sailor Sedna





PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:39 pm Reply with quote
One question, if a doujin has original characters instead of being based off of copyrighted/popular existing franchises, would it still be violating copyright or legal to sell, even if it has references to existing shows? I'm sorry if I'm asking a question I probably already know the answers to, curious as I'm thinking of starting a doujin series of my own in the future, a future goal of mine.

While a good amount of hentai doujins exist (90% of the doujins I saw at a convention this year were that), there are some good serial doujinshi out there though, one of my favorite is the Our Super Weapon R trilogy I found online that was a fanfiction idea of the Silver Millenium of Sailor Moon, it wasn't hentai and it was still a really entertaining story. Just because there's no porn doesn't mean it's not worth reading. Then again, our Internet culture has gotten to the "sex sells" point to where art porn online steals the spotlight... Rolling Eyes

I never bother with R-18 doujins unless the characters are of age, and even then and there, there's only a few I like. Getting non-ero ones based off of a popular franchise can be quite a crapshoot though, sometimes I've accidentally bought ones I didn't know were disgusting/gross (lolicon, Sailor Moon porn) until it was too late (and I'd destroy them).


Last edited by Sailor Sedna on Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 940
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:22 am Reply with quote
Sailor Sedna wrote:
One question, if a doujin has original characters instead of being based off of copyrighted/popular existing franchises, would it still be violating copyright or legal to sell, even if it has references to existing shows?

I'm no legal expert, but...
If it's 100% original work, it's yours to do with as you wish. Any copyright automatically applying to the work belongs to you. Containing references to existing properties is a thornier issue, but largely depends how explicit a reference it is. Feature an existing character exactly as presented in their own franchise? That is a copyright issue and has implications for how legal it will be to sell, though there are circumstances where it is legal and others where it's technically illegal, but no-one sees it as worth it to object. But change the character enough that it's legally distinct, but close enough that people will still recognise it, that you can do.
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Sailor Sedna





PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:49 am Reply with quote
Sakagami Tomoyo wrote:

If it's 100% original work, it's yours to do with as you wish. Any copyright automatically applying to the work belongs to you. Containing references to existing properties is a thornier issue, but largely depends how explicit a reference it is. Feature an existing character exactly as presented in their own franchise? That is a copyright issue and has implications for how legal it will be to sell, though there are circumstances where it is legal and others where it's technically illegal, but no-one sees it as worth it to object. But change the character enough that it's legally distinct, but close enough that people will still recognise it, that you can do.


Thanks. I was thinking of doing parodies of certain other franchises (like different names or something/references) but thanks for the heads up. The hardest part for me would be publishing it, do you know any publishing companies online or something that could publish doujins in right to left format in both English and Japanese (I'm planning to sell them both in English and if possible export them to Japan, in Japanese).
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Meongantuk



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 353
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:25 am Reply with quote
Sailor Sedna wrote:
The hardest part for me would be publishing it, do you know any publishing companies online or something that could publish doujins in right to left format in both English and Japanese (I'm planning to sell them both in English and if possible export them to Japan, in Japanese).


Doujin is self-published works, so most people just do it themselves. For digital stuff, most people use Patreon or Gumroad nowadays, DLsite, Pixiv Fanbox, Booth.pm is also a choice among Japanese artist (I don't know if you can open fanbox or booth accept overseas credit card or paypal). Etsy or Storenvy is popular for physical stuff though, you still have to print and send the book yourself.

For printing, well, any print shop that accept book printing works as long as you already have the ready to print files,
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melmouth



Joined: 19 May 2012
Posts: 167
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:33 pm Reply with quote
It's a community festival. Every sociey has to have 'em, as Japan knows well. People love to get together in large numbers and prove they belong to a community. Ours are mainly sports events, but we have others.

Given the ancient wisdom built into Japanese culture, if anyone ever tried to crack down on doujinshi, on the basis of copyright or "decency", I don't think even the law-abiding Japanese would stand for it.


Last edited by melmouth on Sat Aug 17, 2019 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Amibite



Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Posts: 196
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:26 am Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
Using the database at Doujinshi.org I've run through various queries myself as I've pondered this question before as well. I've discovered that around 40 to 45 percent of doujinshi is R-18/adult/porn.


It's kind of futile to make an estimate like that since there's so much missing data. Most doujinshi are never going to be known or seen by westerners since it's reliant on people ether going to Japanese conventions themselves or importing them to catalog and scan them. And there's many other doujinshi conventions besides Comiket, and chances are if an artist can only go to one of those conventions their work might never be known or cataloged in the west since most people who do all that work never go to those.

Meongantuk wrote:
Another reason why companies usually ignore doujinsi is because nowadays, the industry is filled by doujin artists (both active and inactive). The non-doujin artist are usually old people or those who lucky enough to make a breakout manga/novel. Unless they like to be called hypocrites, they won't close the path that made them big.


Some of them still do. It's not uncommon to see doujinshi or porn from the original mangaka of a franchise, or a former assistant to the mangaka who worked on it, or the artist who does the illustrations for a light novel, or the character designer from the video game, and so forth.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Amibite wrote:
Megiddo wrote:
Using the database at Doujinshi.org I've run through various queries myself as I've pondered this question before as well. I've discovered that around 40 to 45 percent of doujinshi is R-18/adult/porn.


It's kind of futile to make an estimate like that since there's so much missing data. Most doujinshi are never going to be known or seen by westerners since it's reliant on people ether going to Japanese conventions themselves or importing them to catalog and scan them. And there's many other doujinshi conventions besides Comiket, and chances are if an artist can only go to one of those conventions their work might never be known or cataloged in the west since most people who do all that work never go to those.

The database is extremely thorough. For instance for just doujinshi published in the year 2017 it has almost 80,000 entries. It's not futile all as the database is used by Chinese and Japanese otaku as well.
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