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Zom 100: Bucket List of the Dead (TV).


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Edjwald



Joined: 03 Aug 2017
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 5:53 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
Pretty sure that it was him that recognised that it was a mixer, which felt like an "OMG, I might get laid" sort of scene.

I'm not sure how much of Akira thought it through when he wrote down that he wanted to "chat up some flight attendants" on his bucket list, but part of the flight attendant fantasy is the idea that they'll be gone in a few days - the consensual, guilt free, vacation hook-up kind of a fantasy. But I don't know if Akira wrote it the same way he might write "I want to meet a real life maid some day" or if he was writing "I don't want to die a virgin at the end of the world."

DuskyPredator wrote:
[ being a story that is written by a human, not actually happened, suggests possibly some underlying belief of who wrote it.

So it's fiction, and to some extent it reflects the mindset of its creator?

DuskyPredator wrote:
And the easy parallel for contrasting was his previous run in with a woman that he too was having feelings about. The one with only survival on her mind, and said something like alcohol was a bad idea.

I thought the reason Akira decided to try to impress people by chugging a bottle like a frat boy was because he was nervous. As I recall, his inner narrative right before he started chugging was something to the effect of “Oh God, it’s awkward, I don’t know what to do, what do I do, what do people do at mixers, oh yeah, they drink!” Akira doesn't do much in the way of thinking things through in advance like Shizuka does. I'm not sure why you prefaced this with the idea that it somehow reflects the author's inner psyche.. If the implication is that Akira was making a calculated move to try to get the attendants drunk by chugging down a whole bottle, I disagree. He was the one doing the chugging, which is why his cold, calculated, ruthless seduction strategy wound up with him vomiting his toenails up in a bathroom. Akira has no game, in any sense..

DuskyPredator wrote:
The secret infected of the group I guess would probably be described stereotypically as a salaryman, the number one critique this show has against the culture of, the abusive boss and the overworked and stressed employees.

I'm not completely following the train of thought here, but I do think the infected guy seemed more like Akira than his bosses.

DuskyPredator wrote:
It seems pretty apt to identify what the similarities of his workplace crush and the flight attendants might be for what might also be criticisms.

Does this mean “The presence of the infected salary man gives us permission to examine what Saori and the flight attendants have in common and what it reveals about the author’s subtext?” I don’t know that anybody needs permission or an excuse to try that. We all read into stuff.

DuskyPredator wrote:
Could it be about women who try to use their sexuality in society and might shallow?

I don’t fully understand what led you back here, but I think this is your original point. The author has a hidden agenda and/or drive, and it has something to do with him believing that women who use their sexuality are sluts and deserve to die, and this is encoded throughout the anime . Saori and the flight attendants both reveal this.

If I just misrepresented your point, I apologize.

And if that is your point, I've already disagreed with it once, and my reasons haven't changed, so I won't restate them.

DuskyPredator wrote:
That is a worst case scenario, because there could arguably be an equal condemnation of the roles women are put in to survive,

That's my take on the whole Saori office scene, All I can say is, I didn't walk away from it thinking "I wonder if it's too late to become an office manager and score some of that sweet secretary action." I came out of it feeling like maybe it wasn't such a bad thing that the world behind that scene died in a zombie apocalypse.

DuskyPredator wrote:
But with our centre character being from the salaryman world, I would say we need the representation of a character so that female characters don't just feel like objects in his story.

Well, this story has been loosely merging elements of Shaun of the Dead and Zombieland in its structure.

The Shaun of the Dead part because the two male buddies are losers in life who aren't very bright or mature. Like I believe Tony K mentioned, there's a lot of room for growth,

The Zombieland part because it starts out with one loser nerd of a male. He is then joined by another male who’s less nerdy. And we know from the OP that the next part will soon have them being joined by two women on a road trip, one of whom at least, is smarter than they are.

And I'm pretty sure that the author likes Zombieland because one of the women has a list of rules necessary for survival.

So maybe that'll help.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15481
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 6:51 am Reply with quote
Edjwald wrote:
I thought the reason Akira decided to try to impress people by chugging a bottle like a frat boy was because he was nervous. As I recall, his inner narrative right before he started chugging was something to the effect of “Oh God, it’s awkward, I don’t know what to do, what do I do, what do people do at mixers, oh yeah, they drink!” Akira doesn't do much in the way of thinking things through in advance like Shizuka does. I'm not sure why you prefaced this with the idea that it somehow reflects the author's inner psyche.. If the implication is that Akira was making a calculated move to try to get the attendants drunk by chugging down a whole bottle, I disagree. He was the one doing the chugging, which is why his cold, calculated, ruthless seduction strategy wound up with him vomiting his toenails up in a bathroom. Akira has no game, in any sense..

I am confused by your confusion. Akira didn't manipulate things into a mixer, the writer did. I was saying that it was the writers decision to have the story become a sort of mixer, to have it become a bit debaucherous, and then have the women killed by the zombie salaryman, probably the series' strongest tie to the theme of the zombies as mindless drones. The sort of point that Akira was kind of like a zombie in his previous life as walking dead

I did bring up that Akira realised that it had become like a mixer, not to say he was trying to manipulate things, but that he is the main viewpoint character that we the audience see things through. By that point it comes across like the whole mixer like situation was something organic, rather than manipulation of another character, although that does leave out the writer's part.

Do you think there would have been a change in tone if the infected person who turned on the flight attendants was anything but what looks like an overworked salaryman? Zombies as monsters often represent something in how they are used, probably one of the most famous being consumerism in Dawn of the Dead. At this point I am just a bit worried by the amount of female characters turned into zombies because of sexuality, because that can come across a little prudish, maybe passing judgement.

Shaun of the Dead is pretty explicitly about someone with no ambitions in life, and how that pretty much makes him like a zombie. I would say that Zombieland is a little less focused on what its zombies mean, outside of what they are as obstacles to the main characters who have their arcs around things like fear, opening up and trusting. I would say that in terms of fear, a 'loser protagonist' around zombies is a little surface level when considering deeper through lines.
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Edjwald



Joined: 03 Aug 2017
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:10 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I am confused by your confusion. Akira didn't manipulate things into a mixer, the writer did.

Oh, I got you. The situation was definitely contrived, but I don't think things like realism or probability are going to play a big role in this anime. And yeah, there's a lot of debauchery, degeneracy, and depravity. I don't know if that's because the author has a hink in his get go or because he's trying to show how the underside of society is coming up through the cracks now that the social structure has collapsed. Or both.

There's a contrast between how Akira thinks the new world is a Utopia when it's obviously a dystopia, and I think it's interesting.

DuskyPredator wrote:
Do you think there would have been a change in tone if the infected person who turned on the flight attendants was anything but what looks like an overworked salaryman?

Well, "anything" is a pretty wide umbrella. I don't think it would have been a big change in tone if the infected person was a garbage collector. It would have been a huge change in tone if the person was a child, or an 80 year old, or a police officer.

DuskyPredator wrote:
Shaun of the Dead is pretty explicitly about someone with no ambitions in life, and how that pretty much makes him like a zombie. I would say that Zombieland is a little less focused on what its zombies mean, outside of what they are as obstacles to the main characters who have their arcs around things like fear, opening up and trusting. I would say that in terms of fear, a 'loser protagonist' around zombies is a little surface level when considering deeper through lines.

That's true. I say "Loser" because Akira was at the bottom of the social food chain, which is why he feels empowered when the social food chain collapses.

But I also feel it's true that Akira isn't very mature or introspective, and it doesn't help that he's insane. Not Hamlet insane, I mean, "Look at the pretty green, purple, and yellow bloodstains!" insane. He's broken. And I don't know if this anime is going to be about him healing and becoming a stronger, wiser person, or if it's just going to be one big "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride Through the Apocalypse."

But I'm enjoying it.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23799
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 8:11 am Reply with quote
Wow... I had no idea that Edjwald and DuskyPredator were such bitter enemies! I mean the level of ad hominem attacks, rising to the status of defamatory statements... the bile, the vituperative aspersions... geez. Come on, gents, can't you take a page from my book and debate a topic with cool, dispassionate analysis???

(...hee hee hee...)
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15481
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 9:58 am Reply with quote
I wanted to make a joke about making weapons instead of backing down, and I think my mind went to Dead Rising 2 where you could craft ridiculous weapons with sounds of masking tape, even if it was just a bunch of nails in a bat.
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Edjwald



Joined: 03 Aug 2017
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2023 1:19 pm Reply with quote
Just to be clear, I could end any one of you using nothing but my thumbs

(Although technically, it's usually my index finger that I use to hit the power button. Wink )
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smurky turkey



Joined: 30 Jan 2022
Posts: 1955
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 12:32 pm Reply with quote
Less than a day until the next episode, looking forward to it. I think this week we get to see the blond girl show up.
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Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2023 2:07 pm Reply with quote
Looking forward to it, too. Especially if Blondy really is on the scene.
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Edjwald



Joined: 03 Aug 2017
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 5:30 am Reply with quote
Welp, I learned my lesson. I'm going to stop looking for signs and clues concerning the blonde in upcoming episode titles. Unless one says "Cleavage bearing blonde in some kind of samurai gear with such and such an attitude" I'm going to curb that rush I get from speculating.

I thought this show was like an acid dream before, but that shark mutation broke new ground.
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smurky turkey



Joined: 30 Jan 2022
Posts: 1955
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 6:24 am Reply with quote
This week in My Hero Academia adult Deku took on the walking shark. Said battle was very dangerous, thankfully he had some help. Together they combined the quirks bare naked ass, rugby power and looking up information on your phone to beat the chompy walking shark. The heroes succeeded and peace was yet again protected.

Seriously though, that was one hell of an episode. It already was a crazy series and it has only gotten crazier. Sad times once again though, due to the World Athletics Championships there will be no episode next week. The next episode of Zom 100 will be on the 27th of august.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 4088
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:20 am Reply with quote
Edjwald wrote:
I thought this show was like an acid dream before, but that shark mutation broke new ground.

No mutation, it was just a zombie shark + zombies. I don't know where they came from, the aquarium had divers apparently... on top of the only captive great white shark as they can't be kept in captivity... but never let a better idea get in the way of a bad idea. Unless the zombies wandered into the tank somehow... along with the shark? The movie had the shark come from the bay and eat some zombies on the way in so it made more... some sense and flowed better.

Actually, the movie did the whole sequence better as fighting the shark combined all the tricks our heroes learned up to that point... rather than, you know, forgetting zombies were attracted to sounds.

Akira suddenly remembered he always wanted to be a hero after the episode where he wasn't a hero... is the manga this bad? The only thing that's keeping me going is that the movie was an awesome combination of Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou and zombies. If the movie came up with that style on its on from this, that's pretty impressive.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2023 7:18 pm Reply with quote
Episode 5

Well, that was pretty awesome. I was busting a gut when Miss Risk Analysis was destroying Akira's psyche with trenchant commentary on how losers fixate on becoming heroes as a psychological defense mechanism. Laughing I wish she'd just join Akira and Kencho instead of splitting off from them... but I can't really blame her. Those guys are toast.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15481
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:46 am Reply with quote
I didn't even think about the fact that great white sharks cannot be kept in captivity, I had heard that they tend to kill themselves by running up against the sides of the enclosures. It is like the least ridiculous part of the whole walking zombie shark thing, but I am kind of up for some ridiculousness at times.

I would say that we had another woman being killed by misjudging a man as not being zombie, which has nothing to be read into. And the real danger from a woman in this episode was being hysterical. I need to work on not feeling like I am just looking for some sort of narrative.
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smurky turkey



Joined: 30 Jan 2022
Posts: 1955
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 10:54 am Reply with quote
DuskyPredator wrote:
I would say that we had another woman being killed by misjudging a man as not being zombie, which has nothing to be read into. And the real danger from a woman in this episode was being hysterical. I need to work on not feeling like I am just looking for some sort of narrative.

I am gonna be honest here, at this point it feels like every single thing a woman does or does not do in this show will make you try to find some hidden narrative. To each their own way to enjoy a show, but it feels a bit like a pity. I could also go on a rant on how so many men being killed in this show without it being acknowledged is a representation of how society views men as disposable and how they should sacrifice themselves to save others, but I realize that would just be trying to turn the series into something it is not.
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DuskyPredator



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 15481
Location: Brisbane, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 6:00 pm Reply with quote
smurky turkey wrote:
I could also go on a rant on how so many men being killed in this show without it being acknowledged is a representation of how society views men as disposable and how they should sacrifice themselves to save others, but I realize that would just be trying to turn the series into something it is not.

It is not wrong to look at this way. Particularly we have that theme of the zombie to the devalued salary man, where men are dehumanised into being cogs in the machine of a company. There is a bit of irony then, whether intentional or not, that men are being killed without acknowledgement for the zombie hoard. Even the whole men protect as the hero sort of thing, can easily be tied back to the salary man who sacrifices himself to provide for the family

I don't think any of these topics are out of line. I do see the view of saying that this is just a silly zombie show, why would be trying so hard to read political aspects into it. But there are absolutely political points to a series like this, where it is using the horror themes of a zombie hoard to compare to the working grind. And I would say that it's view on men within that system are much clearer, even if it might not be clean, where it wants to say men are taken advantage of by that system, but kind of use them in that disposable way in service of the story.

The reason I keep bringing up women, is I have found it a little clear what it's view is, and I have to try and figure out what those views are, and I do think that there has been a difference between how they treat the male and female characters. I don't want to just hate it, but I can be honest with how I thought watching.
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