Forum - View topicWhy do a lot of Gundam fans hate SEED Destiny?
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well, I finished it tonight and maintain my stance that there's a whole lot of over-reaction to this series going on here. It wasn't as good as Seed no but definitely wasn't horrible either. My only complaint is the overabundance of unnecessary recaping. Then again I don't see the point of recaping in general though, I mean....if these things are actually useful to you then you might as well not watch the series because you're obviously not interested in it enough to remember the events that take place in it.
...but maybe that's just me. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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It really was criminal to have 2 recap episodes in the last 10, complete mismanagement of time/funds by Fuduka.
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IchigoK90
 Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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It should also be a crime to have 2 back to back recap episodes midway through the series.
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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I'll rather have 2 recap episodes in the middle of SEED than 2 recap episodes in the last 10 episodes of Destiny. At least in SEED it was after a big event, while in Destiny it just ruined the flow completely.
Athrun Zala launch!! *recap* Oh no Meer! (and this was a really crappy episode to have a recap episode after, going shopping with 3 epiosdes to go? gimme a break...) *recap* |
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animebrainyanic
 Posts: 213 |
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I just want to have a *recap* when Athrun Zala slaps Shinn, it was so cool, Damn good for Shinn. That's why Shinn much pissed of Athrun 'cause he was bossy all the time. Shinn is just a crybaby. More on words and lacks action. Pity.
I was to die watching this series. Anon characters are just appearing and forgetting original SEED characters, like plain villains in this story having less screens. |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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My problem with Destiny has nothing to do with unoriginality. I think that "unoriginality" is itself a very unoriginal complaint -- it's very easy to claim that something you don't like just ripped off something else, because the truth is that nothing is really all that original anymore, it's all the same stories we've seen before with this or that new spin put on it. The filmmakers of the French New Wave back in the late 50s and 60s (a movement that gave us some of the finest movies ever made) developed the auteur theory of filmmaking which saw the movie's director as the "author" of the movie; they saw a handful of directors (most notably Alfred Hitchcock, but also guys like Jean Renoir and Nicholas Ray too) as "auteurs," leaving their personal, easily recognizable artistic "fingerprint" on every movie they made, and they felt that true auteurs were essentially trying to make the same movie (that is, treating similar themes, using a similar style, etc) every time. And they weren't really wrong. Watch a Hitchcock movie and try to deny that there is something inherently "Hitchcockian" about it. A lot of the French New Wave directors developed into "auteurs" themselves, and you can definitely see similarities between each of the films of Francois Truffaut or Jean-Luc Godard as well. I know I've gone off on a completely non-anime-related tangent here, and obviously there's a bit of a difference between the auteur theory -- that is, that an individual director will make the same movie again and again -- and SEED/Destiny/whatever, where it's a different guy working with a story similar to that in someone else's previous show. And I'll also grant that in the "auteur" sense, filmmakers are usually not reusing the same plot as much as the same general ideas. But the point I'm trying to make here is that, in a very broad sense, "unoriginality" is not inherently bad. Because what matters most is not the broad strokes of the story, but the execution of it, the finer points, and the aspects of every story that are unique to that particular story, such as character development. SEED and Destiny may have borrowed a lot of plot points from First Gundam and Zeta, but they also incorporated a lot of new ideas; in the auteur comparison I was drawing, auteurs might carry the same themes and subject matter but different stories, and in SEED they take a similar story with new themes and ideas (ie, themes of racism, cooperation, science/technology, etc) that weren't present or were present in some different form in earlier shows. The whole idea behind SEED was to create First Gundam for the 21st century, and they basically did that pretty competently.
But my problem with Destiny lies in the finer points. The execution is god awful. From Cagalli's kidnapping to the destruction of Freedom, fully twenty episodes, the story just sort of meanders with no real direction. This part lasts for nearly half the show, and I can break the important developments down to: "Shinn gradually gets angrier and angrier, sometimes inexplicably." And then Fukuda's sense of pacing is just non-existent. Honestly, recaps in the final few episodes and an episode devoted to fleshing out a background character right at the end when we should be ramping up to a big finish? As Westlo said, it just completely kills whatever momentum the show had been building. And as far as character development, I've already laid out my issues with Shinn in detail in this thread, so I'm not going to do it again. And, all that said, I do think that, "originality" aside, the actual events of the story were poorly planned out too, and I've already thrown up a brief explanation of how I would have handled the plot differently. Don't get me wrong, if you guys liked Destiny then more power to you. You're completely free to evaluate the show on whatever criteria you want and to arrive at your own conclusions about it. But I thought it was a really slipshod, poorly constructed story and it has nothing to do with its having been "unoriginal" or my being a UC elitist or any other broad generalization you might come up with. And you can summarize the plot all you want, but that doesn't actually explain why the story is any good. I do have one question though, regarding this part of the post:
What exactly is the difference between Dullindal and Djibril? They're both trying to become powerful, they just have different ways of doing it. Djibril uses money and influence to buy military power to advance his agenda, while Dullindal tries to sweet talk everyone into accepting the most totalitarian of societies, with himself at the top. Djibril might be a horrible racist, but just because the show encourages us to have less sympathy for his "ideal" (that is, a world without Coordinators) doesn't make him any less an idealogue than Dullindal. Dullandal allowed Requiem to be used against PLANT. He built a new Genesis and used it while his own forces were in the line of fire. He tried to use Requiem to wipe out Orb. In no way are his hands clean here. It's nice that you see him as an idealogue driven by a pure and unflinching desire to make the world a better place, but the story itself demonstrates to us that he's a mass murderer. And then there's his horrible treatment of Rey, who he emotionally manipulated through his entire life to keep him under his thumb, and what was actually the point of that unless he somehow knew all those years in the past that he would specifically need to manipulate Rey so that Rey could in turn manipulate Shinn? It doesn't even seem like an "ends justify the means" situation, it seems like he was just a horrible man and circumstances played out such that his mistreatment of Rey bore additional fruit for him in the form of Shinn. "Rau is gone now, now you have to be Rau." Uhhh...why? |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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For the people who have seen both the series and the recap movies... does anyone actually prefer the series to the 4 recap movies? I thought the movies did a decent job in fixing the bloated mess that the series became. It obviously couldn't fix everything like the complete butchering of Cagalli's character but it fixed lots of little problems throughout.
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vtnwesley
Posts: 171 Location: Natrona Heights, PA |
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I suppose what I should be asking is this... If I were to watch the whole series, as a bit of a quality control nut, will I feel ripped off? I've been watching Gundam for a long time. I don't want to miss out on anything if I don't have to, ya know? I sat through Dragonball GT for example. I wasn't terribly happy about it, but I wanted to see how the show I'd been watching for what had to be over a decade by then ends. Would I watch DBGT again? Uh... no. |
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IchigoK90
Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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Well I only chose to finish it because I left it unfinished. I can't leave any Gundam series unfinished. Thats why I started watching Turn A Gundam again. Whether you feel ripped off or not depends on how you take the rest of the series.
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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I watched the recap movies while extremely drunk and some of them were actually subtitled in Spanish, so suffice to say, I don't really remember how they compared to the TV show. But my problems with the show run pretty deep, and although the movies might fix some of the issues with pacing and the constant recaps, I don't imagine that they did much to fix the underlying problems in the story. The movies might be better than the show -- I wouldn't doubt it if they were -- but I don't see how they could actually be very good themselves. Which I guess isn't exactly what you were asking, you merely asked whether people prefer the movies or the TV series, but I feel like with such a deeply flawed story, the difference is probably inconsequential. But then, what do I know? I barely even remember watching them at all. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well if you can sit through GT then Seed Destiny will be a cakewalk. |
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BladeDragoonZETA
 Posts: 586 |
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I finally finished Destiny and FULLY understand the problem: really bad financial planning
It's incredibly obvious that they didn't have enough money to animate the last several episodes they spent way too much time/money on earth and needed another 5-10 episodes (and money for another 20~ episodes) to finish the series effectively it could have redeemed itself (Hell I didn't even mind redeveloping Athrun and Cagalli or Kira and Lacus having a god complex) but alas, the production team found themselves in a financial corner with no way out. the events were interesting but the presentation and rush to the end just killed it. final word: started great, stayed good for a while then fell at the end. better than wing and SD but worse than the rest also did anyone spoiler[think "Deathstar" when they saw the inside of the of Messiah] |
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IchigoK90
Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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I am reminded spoiler[of the Deathstar every time I see a space station with a giant laser cannon in any Gundam series]. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7985 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Yeah, there's really no getting arround that comparison seeing as how Star Wars really pioneered the thing into popular culture.
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IchigoK90
Posts: 1634 Location: Scarborough, Ontario |
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lol its kinda like asking "doesn't a beam sabre remind you of a light sabre?"
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