Forum - View topicNEWS: Library Bars 43-Year-Old from Manga Club Meeting
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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He reminds me of an otaku squidbillie.
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Hmm. I've done a little checking of my own, along the lines you indicated, Goodpenguin, and assuming (it is still an assumption, but I am willing to call it a probable one) that this is the same person, then I agree that he doesn't exactly seem like the most balanced of individuals, nor does he seem likely to have handled the situation with the library personnel with any kind of diplomacy.
Even so, it all hinges not on his character, but on how he was treated by the library staff. No matter how geeky he might be, he still doesn't deserve the "he's-probably-a-pedo" label that so many in this thread have been eager to plant on him. If that line was what the library staff presented him with, he has every right to be enraged and to sue. Personally, of course, if somebody called me a paedophile, my reaction would be somewhat more immediate. I am not the litigious type. - abunai |
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Goodpenguin
Posts: 457 Location: Hunt Valley, MD |
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To note, this 'pedo' talk may have nothing to do with anything. As a fact of life, people often make the assumption that an adult taking interest in a perceived adolescent activity is perhaps somewhat of an oddball. People may perceive that older fan as somewhat of a simple social oddity, it may have nothing to do with suspicions of being some sort of predator. As penguintruth wrote earlier, there's a difference between being young-at-heart, and being aware of how certain things can appear to society-at-large, be it fair or not. Many times some social grace, politeness, and knowledge of common-sense perceptions will help shape a situation. Spending 5 minutes looking into the story, I can reasonably speculate that the man at the center may strongly lack all those qualities. The issue may have nothing to do with the assumption of a molester, it may have much more to do with the library not expecting fans of a certain age, and the person in question's behavior in handling the situation. We do not have any indication of the library staffs conduct, but we do not have any evidence they assumed him to be a predator either (note the complaint is over supposed 'ageism', not personal slander). |
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Nei
Posts: 24 |
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I'm a librarian. While there are libraries and programs that are "all ages" -- often designed to appeal to families -- most library programming is age defined: children 0-11/12; teens 12/13-18 and adult: over 18. Teen programming in our library is 13-18. There is also some "joint" programming from time to time. For example, we screened the FMA movie when it was released in the US as joint teen/adult program for ages 15 and up.
To answer someone's question, yes, at our library, 20-somethings aren't allowed in programs designated specifically for teens. Nor are 11 year olds. Nor are 16 year olds allowed at programs intended for adults only. The only exception is a parent of a minor attending a program may stay. Most often, though, the age ranges are defined by subject/content appropriateness and to foster comfort among peers. He's wasting his time with the suit. There's enough precident across the continent to choke courts for decades. What libraries face is the idea that parents think of the library as a safe haven. It's a false sense of security; we're public buildings. So yes, part of keeping teen, more importantly, younger teen programs separate from adult programs is also so we can better create that expectation. Also, frankly, there's an amazing difference emotionally between a 15 and a 30 year old, or even a 15 year old and an 11 year old. The greater the difference in maturity, the harder it is to supervise a group. What would have been nice is if either the library or the gentleman would've thought about having him act as a presenter at the teen program. That way, he'd get to share his collection (and maybe appeased him) without crossing over into being an "attendee." Nei |
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daxomni
 Posts: 2650 Location: Somewhere else. |
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I don't know much about libraries, I never go to any and haven't had a library card since I was a little boy, but it almost sounds like you're saying some libraries will only allow certain ages in the door? Is this posted on the outside or does the library have a name that gives it away? If I go to "Forest Hills Library" should I check-in at the door with my drivers license to make sure I'm not over the age limit for entry?
So you can create the expectation of false security? Am I reading this correctly? 
I never would have guessed. 
Witness this thread. 
Presenting? I sure hope he doesn't volunteer to work at the library. I'm curious how this would go over considering that he's either a predatory threat or a deranged lunatic depending on who you ask. Personally I don't think the man himself is nearly as interesting as everything I'm learning about how our library system works. |
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jel123
Posts: 108 |
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Those are good sound bites but what is the context? Were these "polite" message boards that he was trolling in or was everyone playing a-hole and he was just giving back in kind? Granted even if it's the latter he does come across as someone who could be "difficult" to deal with. Did you search for any info on the library or it's staff? Has anyone else had problems with them or is this an isolated incident?
I would have thought that that would be the place to start.
Can't it be both?
I guess a good question for any of the librarians out there is; is dealing with difficult people part of the normal training for your profession? It may have helped in this case. |
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Moomintroll
 Posts: 1600 Location: Nottingham (UK) |
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Well of course he's a nut - The Snorks were awesome.
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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I don't think Nei meant this. They were saying their library programs are strictly aged defined, though they should clarify this themselves. That said, something I didn't realize until recently is many libraries are run by corporations, similar to how many hospitals are run by corporations these days. The issue came up because the library my anime club meets at is run by such group (the head librarian is moving to another part of the country where the library is run by the same group (I think it is a promotion) and it made the local news papers). Most of the libraries in my area are still run by the counties (my town library included - the club I go to is actually in a different county), so this was something I hadn't realized had creped into how libraries are run these days  .
Once again, Nei needs to expand on what they wrote. However, I have a couple of stories to pass on about libraries, one of which actually happened in the town I live in a few years back that might give you a idea of the crazy things that go on at libraries and the cr*p they have to put with. First story I saw on the news. Many libraries have problems with sex predators using the libraries like buffets for their issues. Because libraries have a lot of empty space it isn't easy, or even possible in some of them, to know what is going on. Even with cameras some libraries have problems with people getting snatched and raped (and they don't always take the victims away from the libraries - crimes can be pulled off with no one knowing anything in the libraries). The problem isn't just with kids, either. I remember the story talked about woman (all ages) and young men (over the age of 18) being sexually assaulted in libraries, along with small kids. Very sick and disturbing  .
Second story - the one that happened where I live. A woman pilot left her young child at the library while she flew to Colorado Springs (that's over 300 miles from here) on a Saturday (thus weekend hours - open only until 5PM). The problem was the weather turned bad in the Springs and she couldn't get back in time. That left the kid (who wasn't a teen yet - I think they were around 10 IIRC) with nowhere to go when the library closed (I seem to remember they didn't live here - the mother had intended to fly back and pick the kid up and fly back to where every they normally lived or stay the night in a motel or something - I just know the kid knew few to no people here and had nowhere to go). The librarians had to call the cops and this ended up being dealt with by child services. However, the point of this story is many people think the library is a free babysitting service and use it accordingly. Generally no library in the US is set up to be a free babysitting service and you are putting your children at risk leaving them alone at a library, even if the library is in a small town.
You really should learn more about your library(s). Keep in mind that in some cities libraries have been closed or streamlined down due to lack of budgets. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if some cities don't even have more than a single library these days or possibly none at all. I do sympathize with the libraries side of this issue. Age restricted programs at libraries have been around for years and years and those who say this guy just isn't going to win a court battle are right. My problem has been more with posters in this thread and their attitudes towards older fans verse thinking this guy was anymore correct in how he handled things than the library [I had pretty much figured the guy might be on a ego trip or a bit nuts because he was so over the top with his response. My issue with this thread has to do with people jumping to conclusions based on little facts actually known as to what happened and to thinking this guy is "bad" because of his age verse anything else  ]
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digi_dj
Posts: 1 |
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um hello everyone !the club that is being mentioned is my club!which i was hoping wouldnt be a bad thing!lol
but anywho its like this..i came late to the meetin and the the guy who supervises me told me to not let the gentleman back in..was what i was told! from what the kids told me is that he had alot of graphic novels not manga or anime which the club is basically about! and i guess it was our fault for not puttin the age limits on the poster for that particular metting date...but they r makin sure this incident wont happen again.the age group is actually from 11 to 19! |
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Beruda
Posts: 114 |
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LOL, very good. 
{MODERATION NOTICE: Beruda, this is what we usually regard as a non-contributory one-liner. A post saying "me too" or "LOL" or the equivalent simply isn't a contribution. In other words, say something that adds to the discussion, or do not post. Clear? -- abunai} |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Then you're going to have another problem when college kids want to be involved. Still, things could have gone differently. |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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Even with the new evidence, how many peoples internet actions reflect their actual day to day actions? Like in the real world.
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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In the real world, I am a Nobel Prize winning scientist who moonlights as a Hollywood star, when I'm not out jamming with my world famous rock band. I only make-believe I'm a regular person when I'm on the internet. I like to mingle with the common folk. Seriously, though, the tone of discourse on the internet is often light years away from reasoned debate, so what is posted can be remarkably different from what the real-world person would say face-to-face. Even so, I do believe the overall tone of your posts reflects on your personality. I might add that (as probable as it seems), there is still no absolute certainty that the "CJ Palmer" who made those vitriolic and none-too-sensible posts is the same person as the person who was turned away at the library. Furthermore, we're all still making a lot of assumptions about the entire situation. One thing that does seem to support the view of this person as not a serious complainer is this:
If this is true, then it does change the situation quite a bit. If he really did bring a pile of non-manga to a manga event, he would seem to have a poor grasp of appropriate behaviour. Overall, though, I think this thread has lost its grip on facts, and ventured very far into random conjecture. People are pretty much kicking the same viewpoints back and forth, and reusing the same hypothetical arguments. I don't really see many new viewpoints being presented in the recent posts, so unless this thread revives with some more solid content... I'm going to lock it, soon. - abunai |
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kayton
Posts: 1 |
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I am part of club the club and was there I was the only one that met him he seemed nice. I looked in his bookbag it was full of old anime and mangas like appleseed, and stuff he seemed really nice we walked into the club togethor but the librarian was like sorry if we make a club for adults you can join that they really didn't argue that much, I was like he was nice and good anime fan why couldnt he just join but the members were like he could have liked little kids you never know, sorry for the bad typing rushing cause I am not supposed to be on this site at school.
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sliderkta
Posts: 9 |
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My feelings are mixed on this one.
On one hand, I think he should sue the library for age discrimination. Contact the ACLU to report this stupid act? Yes! Definately! Since there was no posted age limit, he should of be let in. Usually clubs that include teen members usually have a parent or other trusted adult there. The article didn't state if the man collection was hentai or questionable doujinshis. For all we know, it could be untranslated Yu-Gi-Oh manga or Inu Yasha stories. The article also didn't state if he was following certain kids around or if stuffed his crotch. During the early days of Sakura Con (formerly Baka con), I reported suspected a suspected pedo who stuffed his crotch so his thing could look bigger. ANYWAYS, according to this article, there is no proof the man was ill-intentioned. All I see is age discrimination. On the other hand, the guy is lucky that he was kicked out. Some angry parent could of falsely accused him, and he could of left the library in handcuffs. These days, it isn't good to be by anyone's kids. I gave up mentoring children years ago because of the internet predator scare. As a 31 year old, female anime fan, I know that some malicious person could falsely accuse me of hurting a child. Back in 2004, I was arrested for being Hispanic. When the police found out that I was a U.S. citizen, they tried to pin a crime on me. Lucky for me, I have very powerful contacts who were able to get me out of this scrape and hire the most vicious criminal lawyer firm in Seattle. Since then I'm more cautious with unknown people. It's very sad how things are going. Years ago, I attended an anime club at the Pierce County Library in Parkland, WA. There were people of all ages there. Teens had to have an adult with them, and there were plenty of college age and older fans there too. Perhaps this guy could consider taking a course at a local college so he can get access to the anime club there. Or better yet just attend the local anime convention and hookup with older fans there! |
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