Forum - View topicNEWS: ADV Films Reveals Clannad Anime License
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AirCooledMan_2006
 Posts: 594 Location: Delaware, U.S. |
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I may not have seen Clannad yet, but it would still make sense WITHOUT the "-chan" suffix. A real translator finds ways around honorifics and other such things. Indian, Chinese, French, Korean, and German all have similar nuances for male, female, etc., and those get translated into English equivalents in R1 releases of movies in those languages. So why treat anime differently? |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I disagree with both sides.
1) I don't think it's necessary to keep honorifics because the relationships are pretty much clarified by other dialog anyway (at least in the case of Clannad) 2) I don't think all things are translatable cleanly between languages. Honorifics is one of them. Sometimes an English "Mr." might be similar enough to the Japanese usage of "-san" or something for a guy, but it's not always like that. 3) Real translators consider their audience. If it's primary a hybridized/blended audience who likes the Japanese language, then they'll translate in a fashion with consideration for that audience. It's not a bad thing that languages are mixed. This happens naturally all the time throughout the world. There are places where to us the English would be nearly unrecognizable. On the other hand if the Clannad dub is to be watched more by the general populace outside of "American otakus" (should I use a different word that an otaku.. lol) it's probably a bad idea to go too much into honorifics on the dub. Anyway I basically don't care one way or another. It's not a big deal. |
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I think you will like how Clannad handles things in this regard. Clannad is quite a bit different from Kanon and Air in a number of ways, and the issues you had with Kanon are among them. |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Second, you're categorizing people who disagree with you as "sheeple." Way to debate buddy. You're only proving your own point of view is distorted. I mean, you're hoping for someone to commit an act of arson/terrorism because you don't like KyoAni's anime? @ AirCooledMan_2006: Personally I like having honorifics in a dub. I agree with you that there are a lot of people who take the whole issue far more seriously than it should be taken, acting like any minor change to the script is tantamount to altering the Bible or something. (Which is ironic since the Bible's been altered a lot over the ages.) Still, I think that some honorifics and terms and culturally unique phrases should be kept in. It's like watching a movie set in Germany during WWII and not hearing the words "fuhrer" or "panzer". Sure these words just mean "leader" and "tank" respectively but they sound cooler in their native form. Besides, English has a lot of loan words in it anyway so I don't see too much of a problem with keeping a few foreign terms in a translation. |
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the Rancorous
 Posts: 2248 Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys |
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There are two specific scenes I can think of off the top of my head where the honorifics are very important to context of the scene: When Nagisa, Okazaki and Fuko are in the club room at night; and the whole "chan" thing with Kotomi. It is possible for them to get around it, but my question is 'at what cost to the meaning of those scenes?' Either way I'll hope for the best  .
And Tyrenol, you should seriously consider this advice: Stop posting, its making you look stupid 
that's all I have to say to him... |
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AirCooledMan_2006
Posts: 594 Location: Delaware, U.S. |
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It'd still have the same meaning WITHOUT the honorifics. Again, leaving honorifics in subtitles and dubs is nothing but pandering to language-mixing weeaboo neckbeards who hate any alterations to the Japanese language. Anyone who can't translate an honorific has no business being a translator; these things are why you find ways around them. It gives the translator a mental exercise, rather than saying "Oh, it can't be changed" and leaving it intact. Leaving honorifics intact, along with other language-mixing, is what we call laziness, or as Penn and Teller would say, bullshit. |
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the Rancorous
Posts: 2248 Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys |
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I think you need to re-read my post dude...
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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AirCooledMan_2006, are you a translator? I'd disagree with you anyway but your dismissive nature leads me to believe you know more than everyone else.
Clearly, there is no question that one cannot leave out -chan without causing a huge problem. At the same time, clearly, one cannot say that any language can be 100% translated into another language without losing anything, as you appear to be saying with your constant "there are ways to do it" statements. Tell me how to translate "-kun" and "-chan" please. What about.. "-sama" or "-dono"? And your translation needs to work in every possible situation. Languages are not equivalent. Mixing them is not wrong/lazy/etc. It's perfectly normal. It happens around the entire world every day. Hell, English is an amalgamation of multiple languages... We have several words with unusual pronunciation that don't fit normal phonetics, etc. |
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Flaed
 Posts: 54 |
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Are you? I have worked with translating between English and three different languages on a very amateur scale, to put my own (lack of) credentials out there. Of course there isn't word-to-word correspondence between one language and another. From one language to another a lot of things will be lost. However, because there isn't word-to-word correspondence, generally English has the ideas expressed in Japanese but expresses them in different ways that have less to do with what you're saying than how you're saying it. Or such is my impression - I don't know Japanese, it's only what I've read. There is no hard and fast rule with any translation from any language. Sometimes honorifics matter, sometimes they don't, sometimes an English title works, sometimes it doesn't. Context is king. In an anime dub, there are also lip flaps to consider, just as when translating a poem you need to balance the needs to render the meaning accurate, provide some semblance of the original structure, and make a poem beautiful in English. When an honorific itself (not the idea) is really, really important, dubs seem to usually leave those honorifics in. When it's not so important and is the focus of maybe one throwaway joke, you're dealing with a different situation. An honorific won't be instantly funny. It's better (in my opinion) to go to the idea that makes the honorific funny and try your best to render it gracefully in English. Sometimes this works, sometimes it only sort of works. |
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