Forum - View topicREVIEW: Bunny Drop GN 1-3
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Of course I believe that my morality is better than those who think stoning a woman to death for adultery is considered normal. If you believe that morality is subjective then that is actually pretty sickening.
There are absolutely things that are inherently wrong, like beating a toddler so hard his blood ends up on the ceiling, or keeping people locked up in your basement as sex slaves. You are against those things, right? Right? |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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Arguably the ending may crap all over the preceding story. I still say as I have said before, that at least it didn't involve glorifying perverse sex acts.
There are some people who want to move against that here in the US, but they are nearly all on the Hard Right. The trend towards presumptive female custody began around 150 years ago. |
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AgitoZ
Posts: 51 |
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Taking out the issue of morality still makes the ending horrible and makes everything surrounding it horrible as well.
It would be one thing if the revelations that happened weren't so out of left field and rushed, but it would be another if they happened in romance series. Which it never was. The ending craps all over the themes and values presented in its own story. That's the main problem with it. |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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And how exactly does that relate to this particular case? I assume it doesn't and you're simply making a point against moral relativism. If you really feel so strongly about this, you might want to start with explaining, what has changed in the modern (and quite liberal) society to make the Genji scenario unacceptable on principle. |
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ArsenicSteel
 Posts: 2370 |
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If you talk about the morality then there's nothing "wrong" with the end. The ending didn't come out of left field, assuming you read all the chapters before it, several characters went through a lot of drama on the way to that ending. The values were not crapped over nor where the themes misrepresented. There was more going on in the story than you want to acknowledge. |
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Northlander
 Posts: 901 |
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OK, just....
I realize I have no power here whatsoever. I don't have any mod status or, probably, not the kind of clout long-time posters here have, that he can tell other people what to do... and they'd listen. So think of this as my most ardent wish, my biggest desire: in any thread, present and future, that doesn't directly involve the ending of Usagi Drop -- and regardless of which side of this debate you're on..... 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Of course it does. Read the post previous to my own. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2610 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I'm backing Northlander up here. As I stated in the review, and as has been said before, this is a thread about volumes 1-3. Please confine yourselves to those volumes. Those of you who would like to continue this discussion, which does have some interesting moral aspects, please go start a thread in the manga forum to do so. Then you can discuss to your hearts' content and not derail a discussion of the volumes that are drastically different from those about which you are speaking. Thank you. |
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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You're mixing up moral and legal system (which is the one that describes what the punishment should be) even if they're very related in religions. Adultery is considered wrong in the West too, it's the legal consequences that differ. P.S. Okay, I'm done now. However I don't think you can completely divorce these volumes from the ending, because a lot of people, who know what happens, will look very differently even to the early chapters. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Hey Princess_Irene, I just was wondering; do you plan to review the last volume when it comes out or is that a minefield you don't want to touch?
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Now you're just strawmanning. I want to remain on topic. I do believe that morality is subjective -- not for me personally, nor for you, but relative to all people. Think about it. Why are we disagreeing if it weren't? Why are there laws that are so contrary to one another based on such "morality"? In fact you contradict yourself by raising the point by previously arguing against it because it's an "outdated" concept, that times have changed since Tales of Genji. That whole argument is a subjective one.
Again strawman. There are some things you can argue for/against in an objective manner. But for the case presented in Bunny Drop, of voluntary relationships, you simply cannot. There's NO way you can show it's "inherent" wrongness. In fact your system of morality, like many others is entirely unprincipled, based on a set of predefined beliefs, on whims, on cultural and temporal context. You've already stated that "it's just wrong" (why?) because "times have changed". The ONLY moral system that is can be objectively argued for, no matter ideological beliefs or emotions, that is not only logically consistent, but can be shown to be universally true and timeless, is one based on the use of force. So that means I'd be against your examples cited. And the very same principle means there's nothing wrong with how the relationship turned out in Bunny Drop (if you were equating it to real life, and disagreeing with it because of that) |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Oh configspace, you must think that you have me argued into a corner with that post. Except that you have yet to understand and accept one very simple point; humans can believe things that aren't true.
We as a species have yet to discover a 'perfect' morality, but that doesn't stop many of us from claiming that we've found it. It also doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just because we haven't found it yet. A lot of people are looking, and we're very, very gradually getting closer to it. I know it exists, and I hope one day - maybe not in my lifetime but in the next few millennium or so - we can find it. So, of course my morality is better than that of religious nutjobs and barbaric cultures. I don't think for one second that my morality is perfect. But I believe that I'm closer than them, and that our culture is closer than any other culture before. The abolition of slavery, giving rights to women and gays, the stigma attached to those who beat their children, the campaign to prevent our planet being further ravaged for simple greed. These are not strawman fallacies, you don't even know what that is. Instead, these are actual examples of how human society is better than it ever has been. So, how does this relate to Usagi Drop and its ending? Well, times have changed since Tale of Genji. The objective moral standard hasn't changed, we are just closer to it than ever before. Just as we have left stoning in the past (and by 'we', I am referring to Western culture), we have also largely left the sickening notion behind that spoiler[an adult should be allowed to marry a child he or she raised.] This is not subjectivism in action, this is about the spread of enlightenment helping people to adopt new beliefs that are closer to that of true morality. If you want to reply, my PM inbox is open and I'd rather we debate there. I don't want to derail the thread even more than it already has been. |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2610 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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Eh, I'll probably review it. What can I say, I'm a glutton for punishment. 
Also, thanks for suggesting that the discussion move to private channels! There really is a lot of interesting discussion to be had on the topic...just not in this thread. 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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When that happens please give me a head-up so I can buy suitable amounts of popcorn and soft-drink beforehand. The fireworks are going to be . . . [puts on safety goggles] . . . explosive. YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!!! |
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angelofragnarok
Posts: 3 |
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First of all, thank you for reviewing Bunny Drop! I watched the anime on Crunchyroll and fell in love with its beautiful story, captivating art, and elegant soundtrack.
Since then I have purchased the available manga and have pre-ordered the remaining ones. I agree with your review concerning the first 3 volumes. They're very easy yet entertaining reads with a very subtle message being presented; a single man can, with determination and perseverance, raise an excellent child with all of the correct type of upbringing it deserves. Regarding the "controversial" ending, I really believe that people have gotten flustered and disgusted over a very stupid superficial belief. spoiler[I have read the entire manga, and the "disgusting" relationship between Rin and Daikichi is anything but nasty. Rin loves Daikichi the exact same way that Daikichi's grandfather was loved by Masako. The automatic assumption that love means sexual relations with someone is inherently wrong, no matter what faith a person is. The fact that Rin is genuinely concerned for a man that is getting older in life with no one to take care of him really bothered her. I feel that the mangaka presented it like this to portray what a child like Rin would be thinking during all of this time. From childhood Daikichi was protecting and providing Rin with everything he had. He had such a strong sense of duty and love for this little girl that he focused his entire life on it. No hanging with the guys, no trying to date a hot chick or go bar hopping. When she grew older, Rin must have been very distressed by the fact that Daikichi had -no one- to take care of him as he grew older. She most likely realized that the happiest she would ever be was with her father because a boy / man with such a huge sense of dedication is exceedingly rare anymore. Wanting to dedicate yourself to your family is extremely noble and elusive, it seems. I for one have been contemplating for several years now how to prepare to take care of my father in his old age. If it meant sacrificing a love life to provide security for someone who will be depending on me for the rest of their days, is that such a disgusting thing to do? If you answer yes to that, then I have no reconciliation with you.] |
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