Forum - View topicAnime fan vs. anime fan: Have you exprienced it?
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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Note: Crunchyroll's Victoria Holden recently address this and it makes for a good topic of discussion, so I brought it over here to expand upon it.
I don't attend anime clubs nor do I visit cons. Yet, the article still hit home because of the attitude it mentions, an attitude all too familiar on the internet. As a long-time fan of anime, I've watched this grow over the years. I've used the phrase "split the room in two" more often than I can count while discussing anime. Today, if a fan mentions any of the hot-topic subjects, it splits the room in two, and each side points their fingers and says how stupid the other is. It's so disgusting, in my opinion. Those days where I did mingle with anime fans had us targeting the series, never each other. It's not like this today as even some professional reviewers indirectly target the audience, straying from their roles as anime reviewers to focus on the audience and their expected actions or demographic makeup. I don't see this changing. The industry has inevitably pitted fan against fan, and caters to the demographic willing to open its wallet the fastest. If today's anime fans would rather support Nanoha than Faye, this will always provide a generation gap between the fans, instigating the pointed attacks. Now it's your turn. What do you feel about this? |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23792 |
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I think fan vs. fan is inevitable, regardless of subject matter (anime, fish-raising, needlepoint ... it doesn't matter) - especially on the good old anonymous Internet. It's mostly human nature. I know it shouldn't bother me if somebody slams a show I love, but it does. Very few of us have the talent to relate why we don't like a show without giving offense to those who do. Conflict is inevitable. This is a pretty tightly moderated site, yet conflicts arise all the time. I can only imagine what it would be like if there was an "anything goes" attitude here. Actually, it's not that hard to imagine at all: it would be a useless wasteland of shitty flames and pointless circular bitching.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I disagree that this has gotten to be substantially more of a problem over the years. In fact, some of the most intense "room-splitters" (as you put it) that anime has ever seen are now a decade or more old and others - the whole business with so-called "Narutards," for instance - are getting close to that. These kind of confrontations over particular titles and/or character have been ebbing and flowing for oh, pretty much as long as there's been enough of a hard-core fan base to support anime-focused conventions.
As for the issues raised by the columnist you linked to, while I know this is a real, current problem (I've been hearing stories for years about elitism amongst hard-core cosplayers, for instance), that type of elitism within various facets of geekdom has been around for decades. This phenomenon is hardly limited to things traditionally associated as geeky, either; the Mark Wahlberg movie Rock Star, for instance, had a probably-based-on-actual-anecdotes scene where rival metal tribute bands even get into a scuffle over the accuracy and quality of their respective aping of the originals. |
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dirkusbirkus
 Posts: 699 Location: Manchester, UK |
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Totally, sniping on the internet is commonplace because you can sit behind a keyboard, say what you want, and completely get away with it. People are a lot braver when they have that added layer of protection and anonymity. Sadly, they're also a lot more abrasive. I like to think I'm less of a 'troll' than others but I've been known to post things specifically to rub someone up the wrong way. Just because I can. I don't make a habit of it, but you know the old saying , "When in Rome..." I've seen people write that this particular forum is heavily moderated, but I think it works just fine that way. Threads that become trainwrecks are quickly dealt with (usually) and we avoid most dramabombs because of it. This is pretty much one of the only places I can openly discuss anime since it's still terribly niche in the UK. I think if you were to gather a load of UK anime fans in one room people would be too busy marvelling at other people with similar interests to have any sort of heated argument. Not to say we're a docile lot, I'm sure someone would be able to start a raging debate if they pushed it far enough. I just don't see anime fan vs anime fan where I'm from, since, well, I don't see anime fans at all! |
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Hypeathon
Posts: 1176 |
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A little off-topic here and probably stupid question, but wasn't one of the running gags in Oreimo basically Kirino who represents one kind of anime fan, headbutting against Ruri who represents another kind of anime fan? And then Kyosuke, the older brother would likely be thinking "why do either of you even freaking care so much?!"
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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^^ IMHO ANN is one of the few bastions of civilisation in part of the Net occupied by anime fandom.
 It took me a while to find a place where moderators do care to maintain good atmosphere and people don't stoop themselves to certain level.
Actually in my eyes anime fandom is pretty moderate when it comes to elitism. As a community of people loving the same medium it's divided, so people can gather in niches where they feel comfortable. For example I've come across some "elitist cosplayers", but cosplay was never my cup of tea so I just let our patches never meet again. In more homogenised ones fandoms (usually dedicated to particular series), concentrated around huge sites that annoying tendency is more visible. Before I meet anime fans I was active in Star Wars fandom and elitism in that place was it's trademark- those who joined by times of Special Edition (1997) considered themselves a batter kind of fans than "prequel kids" and were told to be "worse" by fans of Original Edition (80s). Recently Prequel Fans promoted, because of "Clone Wars Kids" who are of course (cough). I was amazed that I've never found that attitude in anime fandom. So we are not such a hell 
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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I think that this is just people being people and has nothing to do with anime.
I disagree with that. There is nothing that the industry would like better than to unite all fans into one huge customer base.
As has been said often, anime is a business and any business will, and should, try to do whatever makes the most profit. Again, this is nothing unique to anime. It is just businesses doing business. |
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RGaspar
 Posts: 236 |
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@ Touma and @Blood-: I couldn't have said that better. Fanwars are likely to happen with anything that doesn't follow a single way (which turns out to be everything?).
It depends on the franchises. Just to put an example I know of: Evangelion. There are guys that have only seen the TV series and refuse to see the new movies, or acknowledge them as a better/equivalent work because it's just "a new shiny thing that would never surpass the original"; or guys that think Eva 1.0 and 2.0 and etc are actually superior to the TV series, which is now a big pile of crap. And, of course, the last bunch of guys, that despise everything Eva-related. Sure, the Eva fanwars aren't as heated as Star Wars, but that must be a matter of raw fanbase population. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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You understate the situation. I can attest, for example, to have once seen Naruto cosplayers convening in Manchester's Piccadilly Gardens without ostensible purpose, and that is to say nothing of what one encounters in central London. Conflict outside electronic discussions is admittedly rare, though one will find it. Consider what occurs within the nocturnal gatherings of the numerous cash-strapped and reclusive university anime societies around the country. |
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dirkusbirkus
Posts: 699 Location: Manchester, UK |
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Yup, once. I can guarantee they don't do it anymore, since I walk through those same gardens on a near-daily basis. Since there's also no 'designated' area for such gatherings in central London, such sights are a novelty. Unless there's a secret collective who meet out of the public eye, I don't believe I was understating at all. The fact remains that you and I are in the extreme minority Zin5ki. The Manchester Uni anime society has a dwindling member base and I'm led to believe it gets smaller each year. Rather than being a growing subculture, open appreciation for anime in the UK is more marginalised now than ever. It's not that people don't watch and enjoy the medium, it's just that open discussion of such a topic is very select. Until someone offers evidence to the contrary, I remain convinced the picture I paint is an accurate one. I really don't mind eating my hat on this one, I'd be happy to be humbled. Heck, I'd welcome it as positive news. |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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This is just a thinly veiled spin on the old "anime was better back in the good old days" thing, only now they're using the fan-base as opposed to the shows themselves. It's silly.. fans will always argue about stuff, it's nothing new. Especially on the internet when you see 10 page long topics discussing pointless crap like "Should Aizen marry Orihime?" which turns into rabid bashing. The only thing you can say is the internet made it easier for people to argue and clash opinions.
I am also going to disagree here as well.
Actually I would say it does. I mean, who would you really listen to when it comes to factual history about anime? A guy who actually lives in Japan, or at least visits there, and has seen tons more series than people have ever heard of, or a guy who's only watched Toonami and Adult Swim? Let alone subjects like 'What's big in Japan?' or 'What is this community doing' and such. I think the edge of credibility goes to the guy who's actually been there as opposed to someone who maybe heard something one time on the internet somewhere but can't remember the link for the life of him (funny how that happens more times than not). As someone in the former category, I do try to educate people with misconceptions about Japan when I see them posted on sites and the like based on first-hand experience and knowledge. I do consider myself more knowledgeable about it than most people, especially people who only watch what's on TV, for example, given I've seen more things than most. If that makes me elitist, so be it. It is amazing how angry people get when you tell them the truth though. I suppose it's like telling a little kid Santa Clause doesn't exist; their preconceived world is being shattered and it's easier to cry liar/troll than accept something outside the realm of reality so they can stay in their bubble. It's almost like people don't want to know the truth. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18200 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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No, that's entirely relevant; in fact, it's a pretty good illustration of what we're talking about. (Although that was as much a case of a personality conflict as a hobby/interest conflict.) |
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EireformContinent
Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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Titan, like always everything goes for execution. That's nothing personal, but overal observation. Nobody deny that "educated fans" are valuable for fandom, but in case of friendly chats on forum the attitude is as much important as knowledge. There won't be much from people who constantly underline their superiority and humiliate other users. That's really a shame that some people are so proud and short sighted that they treat others as really inferior beings. Real elite don't just share their knowledge, but do it with smile no matter to whom they talk.
Apart from that when it comes to discussions about shows I think that opinions of newbies and casual fans are as much valuable as those with knowledge about subject. I always try to know as much as I can before I watch the show, but does it make my opinion more trustworthy than one made by people who just came across it? IMHO that naive fans bring a lots of freshness for old nerds like me. In discussion, in exchange for my informations can give me new perspective and help re-think everything. |
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Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9848 Location: Virginia |
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Since I'm well out of the usual demographic, I have made no attempt to interact with local fans. My only fan contact until recently has been the people who sold anime to me. Currently ANN is my fandom. It appears I didn't miss out on much.
I have noticed that people will argue about almost anything with intensity. When I first started collecting anime, AnimEigo had an active forum. The owner suggested he might put a Morse Code subtitle track on one show (Urusei Yatsura I think). This started a fight that went on for days. In the late 50's I was given a pile of science fiction magazines from the late 40's to early 50's. The fights in the letter pages were everybit as bad as anything I've seen here, and that was limited to what the editors chose to print. The more things change... |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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Indeed. A while ago, I was chastised for not remembering who directed a series we were conversing about. I don't go out of my way to remember directors of every anime I watch, but I do follow those whose works mirror what I appreciate. If I discover someone who can name off every party who worked on backgrounds of every anime made in the past 10 years (or more!), I stray away from what they believe is a conversation but is actually a bragging session. In generalized conversation, a reminder of names isn't out of line. To follow that with condescending remarks is ridiculous. @TitanXL: I usually don't get the impression of "back in the day" discussion, but more of "blaming" someone for liking a series because of "X". It's difficult to read the opinions of people when they then turn and make comments like "remember she's like your sister when grabbing a tissue". Since when does one's appreciation of anime come down to masturbation. If today's youth can whip it out, spank it in the 10 seconds the clip plays, I forsee a drop in population in other countries. |
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